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The war over Hagel is on
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
http://freebeacon.com/rejecting-chuck-hagel/

Quote:
Former Republican Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel may no longer be President Obama’s favored pick to run the Defense Department, sources told the Free Beacon.


Great news. Let's get creative.


Quote:
Hagel immediately drew a frosty reception from observers who criticized him for advocating in favor of direct unconditional talks with Iran and for backing sizable cuts to the defense budget.


I don't care about his naive views on foreign policy. He'll be Secretary of Defense.

Yes, he should back sizable cuts to the "defense" budget. Good God, the Republicans are always whining about the deficit, but if they won't consider cuts to imperalism, then they're unserious. (I know, I know, just pointing what we all know out for the Nth time).

That and a bunch of anonymous quotes by effeminate, cowardly aides to shitty policymakers.

Quote:
Michele Flournoy, a former undersecretary of defense for policy, is currently viewed as the frontrunner for the post.

“She will be the likely candidate as there has been criticism from liberals for possibly replacing a female secretary of state with a male, and [Flournoy would be] the first woman secretary of defense,” said one senior Senate aide with knowledge of the process. “Hagel could have been a test by the president—if Hagel’s positions could be supported then likely so would Flournoy.”


*headsmack*
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123 wrote:
On the other hand wrote:
Since when has having Hezbollah on a terrorist-list been a sine qua non for foreign-policy cred?

According to wikipedia, the US didn't put Hezbollah on the list until 1999, 16 years after the attack that Beirut Familes thinks should mandate the group's inclusion.

AND they were removed from the list in 2001, during which time there was Republican control of the Administration, House, and Senate.

They were put back on the list in 2005. But still, Hezbollah's status as an offically designated terrorist group seems to be a lot more negotiable than Hagel's critics would have us believe.

link


The Wikipedia article is in error- Hezbollah was put on the list in 1997 .

Maybe it took 16 /14 years cause the list wasn't started until 1997 ? In fact Hezbollah was put on the list the very first day the list was started. You sure the Wikipeda article helps Hezbollah? I don't think it is negotiable at all.


http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_847

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_AMIA_bombing

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/12/dc_court_iran_showed.php

http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/al-qaeda-hezbollah-relationship/p11275

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/19/us-usa-treasury-hezbollah-idUSBRE8AI0TK20121119

He would be Sec of defense. Not the head of the department of agriculture . Goes to judgement.He certainly ought to explain why he didn't sign the letter. Or is it that he is beyond being questioned?


Well, I guess I should retract that, since from what I can tell, you're correct about the list not existing before '97.

I'm wondering if they actually did delist Hezbollah for a few years in the early 2000s, of if that's just something else that wikipedia(via the Counterpunch writer) got wrong.

Having said that, in doing research on this, I discovered that there were in fact 10 Republican senators who refused to sign the petition to the EU. This amounts to almost 20% of their caucus at the time, and included the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Richard Lugar. (By contrast, only two Democrats refused to sign).

Soooo...if you think that Hagel was a bad guy for not signing, I'd say you've got even bigger problems than that. The GOP caucus is a vertiable nest of Jew-hating vipers!

link
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:


I don't care about his naive views on foreign policy. He'll be Secretary of Defense.

Yes, he should back sizable cuts to the "defense" budget. Good God, the Republicans are always whining about the deficit, but if they won't consider cuts to imperalism, then they're unserious. (I know, I know, just pointing what we all know out for the Nth time).



plus ten points to Ravenclaw

As you say its Defense, views on Israel or whatever is not relevant. Of course we know that the only reason Republicans have against cuts to defense is the amount of money they get from the military-industrial complex. The military budget is insane. Multiples more than the next several biggest budgets many of whom are allies.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barney Frank opposes Hagel because Hagel once said a bad thing about gays:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/barney-frank-opposes-hagel-for-defense-secretary

Quote:
"I cannot think of any other minority group in the U.S. today where such a negative statement and action made in 1998 would not be an obstacle to a major Presidential appointment," Frank said in the statement.


Barney Frank signs letters to free Jonathan Pollard:

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2011/080211d.htm

Barney Frank is a liar.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Barney Frank opposes Hagel because Hagel once said a bad thing about gays:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/barney-frank-opposes-hagel-for-defense-secretary

Quote:
"I cannot think of any other minority group in the U.S. today where such a negative statement and action made in 1998 would not be an obstacle to a major Presidential appointment," Frank said in the statement.


Barney Frank signs letters to free Jonathan Pollard:

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2011/080211d.htm

Barney Frank is a liar.


He's definitely lying.

HRC already accepted Hagel's apology. That doesn't mean all gays follow HRC (or should). But it does show the hollowness of Barney Frank's complaint.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm rooting for AIPAC this round. I want the military to believe that political opposition to the Lobby is futile.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen any evidence that the US military wants C. Hagel to be S of Defense in particular.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123 wrote:
I haven't seen any evidence that the US military wants C. Hagel to be S of Defense in particular.


The military is opposed to war with Iran. Mullen (then the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) at one point flew to Tel Aviv and told the Israeli government that the US military was watching for a "Liberty style event".

http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/06/02/navy-vet-honored-foiled-israeli-attack/
Quote:
In early July 2008, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, was sent to Israel to read the riot act to then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who seemed to be itching to start hostilities with Iran while Bush and Cheney were still in office.

We learned from the Israeli press that Mullen, to his credit, went so far as to warn the Israelis not to even think about another incident like the attack on the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967 — that the Israelis should disabuse themselves of the notion that U.S. military support would be knee-jerk automatic if Israel somehow provoked open hostilities with Iran.


Hagel may or may not be the exact choice of the military leadership but shares their hostility to war with Iran (and I suspect a few other things too). If Obama can not appoint a person who is independent of Israel then the military has to consider other options because the government is compromised and fields of solders are going to die, again, for Israel.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what other options are you referring to? Anyway I wasn't aware you spoke for the US military.

Plus i don't really don't really trust Ray McGovern or Counterpunch's reporting.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/07/09/uss.liberty.tapes/
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123 wrote:
what other options are you referring to? Anyway I wasn't aware you spoke for the US military.

Plus i don't really don't really trust Ray McGovern or Counterpunch's reporting.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/07/09/uss.liberty.tapes/


The source for the Mullen info is the Jerusalem Post. I posted the original link on one of the Israel threads.

No amount of hand waving and propaganda will change the truth of the USS Liberty.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was referring to McGovern's account of the USS LIberty.It is not supported by the CNN account of official tapes Unless CNN is in on the conspiracy.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/07/09/uss.liberty.tapes/




I also believe the US government more than I believe McGovern. In fact I don't trust the accounts of the incident by McGovern or Counterpunch.


Quote:

“The evidence was clear. Both Adm. Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack … was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew … Not only did the Israelis attack the ship with napalm, gunfire, and missiles, Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned three lifeboats that had been launched in an attempt by the crew to save the most seriously wounded — a war crime



Quote:

The myth Boston repeats about Israel committing a war crime by machine gunning three life rafts was initiated by Lloyd Painter about ten years after the event. The sworn testimony of Lloyd Painter taken June 13, 1967 does not mention machine gunning the three life rafts, nor does the testimony of the Captain or any of the crew, who were there on the bridge and on the deck with Lloyd Painter at the time on June 8, 1967.


http://hnn.us/articles/39936.html


Counterpunch/ McGovern

Quote:


The following exchanges are excerpts of testimony from U.S. military and diplomatic officials given to Alison Weir, founder of “If Americans Knew” and author of American Media Miss the Boat:

Israeli pilot to ground control: “This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?”

Ground control: “Yes, follow orders.”

“But sir, it’s an American ship — I can see the flag!”

Ground control: “Never mind; hit it!”


This is false. This is what the tapes say.


Quote:

"For your info, it is apparently an Arab ship," says ground control.

"Roger," says the pilot.

"It is an Egyptian supply ship," says ground control.

"Roger," comes the response.

The NSA released the tapes and transcripts under the Freedom of Information Act in response to a request from Miami Judge Jay Cristol.

An author of a book on the attack, Cristol said the tapes show it was a tragic accident in a time of war -- that the Israelis mistook the ship for an Egyptian one.

"I don't think there's any question that anyone who reads these tapes would be absolutely convinced there was the fog of war out there," Cristol said.

Later on the tape, the Israelis sound confused and concerned. Ground control orders the helicopter pilots to look for survivors and to check their nationality.

"If they speak Arabic -- Egyptians -- you're taking them to Al-Arish. If they speak English -- non-Egyptians -- you're taking them to Lod. Is that clear?" says ground control.

"Roger," says the pilot.



http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/07/09/uss.liberty.tapes/





Ray McGovern makes no mention of the tapes , even though they have been available for some time which leads me to believe that rather than telling the truth he is interested in deceiving and misleading .
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama likely to nominate Hagel next week

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Chuck Hagel appears to have weathered a concerted and vocal campaign to derail his chances for defense secretary, with President Obama likely to nominate him as early as next week, administration and Congressional officials said Friday.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Obama likely to nominate Hagel next week

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Chuck Hagel appears to have weathered a concerted and vocal campaign to derail his chances for defense secretary, with President Obama likely to nominate him as early as next week, administration and Congressional officials said Friday.


Glad to hear it. First he's competent. Very competent. Second, I hate that a foreign country or Americans on behalf of a foreign country have so much influence on our government. Its >>this close<< to being treasonous in my view. America should always be first. This is said by someone who is a zionist and wants to see an Israeli state but I'm an American first and foremost and we should act accordingly.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is not supported by the CNN account of official tapes Unless CNN is in on the conspiracy.


I'll trust McGovern over CNN and the NSA. And Mullen, who I doubt flew to Israel to warn them over a USS Liberty event under false information.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lindsey Graham whines about Obama's choice

Quote:
“He has long severed his ties with the Republican Party. This is an in-your-face nomination by the president," Graham said. "And it looks like the second term of Barack Obama is going to be an in-your-face term."


Cry me a river Graham. I'm getting tired of him and McCain.
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