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Merry Christmas
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merry Christmas to all. This post is an extension of my personality.

I also wish you all a happy ride on the 2013 train.

I like to think I always remember those less fortunate.
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Zulethe



Joined: 04 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merry Christmas everybody!!!
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Merry Christmas Reply with quote

Plume D'ella Plumeria wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:
Kwangjuchicken wrote:
To everyone Very Happy


Some poster going by drcrazy or whatever was getting into numerical coincidences of note and I thought maybe Kwangjuchicken had a new disguise.

Anyway, yes, since I had to say that, I'll go full fruity (like a piece of Juicyfruit) and say Merry Christmas to you too.


Funny; I had the very same thought myself. Some chicken, thought I, was clucking.

And for you others; bloody sakes.

Ricochet, quit playing. For a change. Funny is funny. Annoying is annoying.

Schwa, quit being so gullible. The guy is messing around and probably doesn't give a crap about grieving families.

Dodge, quit being a jerk. It's hard, I know. Just put the Jesus stuff away that you trot out on occasion just to be, well, a jerky troll.


+1.
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that's right Dodge..just keep Jesus out of Christmas. Why should the Christ be talked about at Christmas? How dare you even mention Him! Rolling Eyes
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PeteJB



Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merry Christmas!
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Taylormade



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
ricochet wrote:
Christmas? merry Christmas?? say that to 20 sets of parents mourning the tragic senseless lost of their loved little ones!!! say that to others that sacrificed their lives for those 20 little ones!!! say that to the uncountable people living in fear, poverty and sheer dire straits!!! ...but, please, dont wish it to me coz i think ive enuf of this cruel place we call home wherever you may be...please, enuf...so sad. Crying or Very sad
We say Merry Christmas to our Lord and Savior who was born and lived a sinless life and died for those that were sin, to be sinless in the eyes of the God the Father, the creator. That's the gist of it.


LOL. How any university graduate can believe such a silly fable is beyond me. Enjoy the Christmas season, sing carols, enjoy the atmosphere, etc. but let's not pretend that there's any more truth to bible stories than there is to any other book of fables.

Grown ups believing bible stories. Rolling Eyes
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: 305

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*beep* off! Evil or Very Mad
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
When people tell me "Happy Holidays" I always ask which ones.


And I always reply, whichever ones you choose to celebrate.

Seasons Greetings everyone!!
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! How PC of you.
Last November Americans should have said "Have a happy holiday" instead of "Happy Thanksgiving" because the Islamic New Year fell on November 15th. Many Muslims are not from America so we shouldn't offend them. It's best to play it safe and not offend anyone right?
How inconsiderate of anyone who dared to say "Happy Thanksgiving".
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taylormade wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
ricochet wrote:
Christmas? merry Christmas?? say that to 20 sets of parents mourning the tragic senseless lost of their loved little ones!!! say that to others that sacrificed their lives for those 20 little ones!!! say that to the uncountable people living in fear, poverty and sheer dire straits!!! ...but, please, dont wish it to me coz i think ive enuf of this cruel place we call home wherever you may be...please, enuf...so sad. Crying or Very sad
We say Merry Christmas to our Lord and Savior who was born and lived a sinless life and died for those that were sin, to be sinless in the eyes of the God the Father, the creator. That's the gist of it.


LOL. How any university graduate can believe such a silly fable is beyond me. Enjoy the Christmas season, sing carols, enjoy the atmosphere, etc. but let's not pretend that there's any more truth to bible stories than there is to any other book of fables.

Grown ups believing bible stories. Rolling Eyes


The New Testament is a very historically accurate book from antiquity. Sad to see that pseudointellectuals who claim it's a fable don't realize this yet.

Myths are difficult to destroy.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
Great! How PC of you.
Last November Americans should have said "Have a happy holiday" instead of "Happy Thanksgiving" because the Islamic New Year fell on November 15th. Many Muslims are not from America so we shouldn't offend them. It's best to play it safe and not offend anyone right?
How inconsiderate of anyone who dared to say "Happy Thanksgiving".


Well, if that was directed at me, I never said I minded people saying "Merry Christmas" to me - in fact I don't mind it at all. I say it right back to them.

I just don't see why people get so bent out of shape out of hearing "Happy Holidays"

Seems like they are trying to find a problem where there is none to be found.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:

Myths are difficult to destroy.


I think that was his point!
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the evidence he presented for his point/assertion...or did you just state something without any evidence?
He asserts something but does so without proof.
Here's my evidence for the reliability of the New Testament:
1. More manuscripts than any other writing from the ancient world.
2. More accurately copied manuscripts than any other writing from the ancient world.
3. With the above, earlier manuscripts to their original than any other writing from the ancient world.

Historicity of the New Testament
http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability

by Matt Slick

The New Testament is constantly under attack and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. But, if the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross checked for accuracy... and they are very consistent.

There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2
Author Date
Written Earliest Copy Approximate Time Span between original & copy Number of Copies Accuracy of Copies
Lucretius died 55 or 53 B.C. 1100 yrs 2 ----
Pliny 61-113 A.D. 850 A.D. 750 yrs 7 ----
Plato 427-347 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 yrs 7 ----
Demosthenes 4th Cent. B.C. 1100 A.D. 800 yrs 8 ----
Herodotus 480-425 B.C. 900 A.D. 1300 yrs 8 ----
Suetonius 75-160 A.D. 950 A.D. 800 yrs 8 ----
Thucydides 460-400 B.C. 900 A.D. 1300 yrs 8 ----
Euripides 480-406 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1300 yrs 9 ----
Aristophanes 450-385 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 10 ----
Caesar 100-44 B.C. 900 A.D. 1000 10 ----
Livy 59 BC-AD 17 ---- ??? 20 ----
Tacitus circa 100 A.D. 1100 A.D. 1000 yrs 20 ----
Aristotle 384-322 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1400 49 ----
Sophocles 496-406 B.C. 1000 A.D. 1400 yrs 193 ----
Homer (Iliad) 900 B.C. 400 B.C. 500 yrs 643 95%
New
Testament 1st Cent. A.D. (50-100 A.D. 2nd Cent. A.D.
(c. 130 A.D. f.) less than 100 years 5600 99.5%

As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in 30 A.D., then that means that the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri 125 A.D.). This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document.

Below is a chart with some of the oldest extant New Testament manuscripts compared to when they were originally penned. Compare these time spans with the next closest which is Homer's Iliad where the closest copy from the original is 500 years later. Undoubtedly, that period of time allows for more textual corruption in its transmission. How much less so for the New Testament documents?
Important
Manuscript
Papyri Contents Date
Original Written MSS
Date Approx.
Time Span Location
p52
(John Rylands
Fragment)3 John 18:31-33,37-38 circa
96 A.D. circa
125
A.D. 29 yrs John Rylands Library, Manchester, England
P46
(Chester Beatty Papyrus) Rom. 5:17-6:3,5-14; 8:15-25, 27-35; 10:1-11,22,24-33,35; 16:1-23, 25-27; Heb.; 1 & 2 Cor., Eph., Gal., Phil., Col.; 1 Thess. 1:1,9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28 50's-70's circa
200
A.D. Approx.
150 yrs Chester Beatty Museum, Dublin & Ann Arbor, Michigan, University of Michigan library
P66
(Bodmer Papyrus) John 1:1-6:11,35-14:26; fragment of 14:29-21:9

70's
circa
200
A.D. Approx.
130 yrs Cologne, Geneva
P67 Matt. 3:9,15; 5:20-22, 25-28 circa
200
A.D. Approx.
130 yrs Barcelona, Fundacion San Lucas Evangelista, P. Barc.1

If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others. The Christian has substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents than he does for any other ancient writing. It is good evidence on which to base the trust in the reliability of the New Testament.

Footnotes
1. Norman Geisler & Peter Bocchino, Unshakeable Foundations, (Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House Publishers, 2001) p. 256.
2. The above chart was adapted from three sources: 1) Christian Apologetics, by Norman Geisler, 1976, p. 307; 2) the article "Archaeology and History attest to the Reliability of the Bible," by Richard M. Fales, Ph.D., in The Evidence Bible, Compiled by Ray Comfort, Bridge-Logos Publishers, Gainesville, FL, 2001, p. 163; and 3) A Ready Defense, by Josh Mcdowell, 1993, p. 45.
3. "Deissmann was convinced that p52 was written well within the reign of Hadrian (A.D. 117-3Cool and perhaps even during the time of Trajan (A.D. 98-117)" (Footnote #2 found on pg. 39 of The Text of the New Testament, by Bruce M. Metzger, 2nd Ed. 1968, Oxford University Press, NY, NY). Bruce Metzger has authored more than 50 books. He holds two Masters Degrees, a Ph.D. and has been awarded several honorary doctorates. "He is past president of the Society of Biblical Literature, the International Society fo New Testament Studies, an the North American Patristic Society." -- From, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel, Zondervan Publishers, 1998, Grand Rapids, MI: pg. 57.


Last edited by Zackback on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:18 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
And the evidence he presented for his point/assertion...or did you just state something without any evidence?
He asserts something but does so without proof.


Zack, he said it was a fable, and you said it was historically accurate, which is fine - I am not even taking sides. But then you went to on to say myths are difficult to destroy, which seems to be making his point for him.

That's all I am saying.
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thank you.
Let's wait for the evidence he presents.
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