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Merry Christmas
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one thing has been overlooked in this focus on specific passages. Regardless of what any particular gospel writer thought about Jesus, doesn't mean that Jesus held that belief about himself. Christianity is better understood as a religion about Jesus, not the religion of Jesus. Even if Mark did believe Jesus was God (which is dubious at best) it doesn't mean that Jesus held that opinion of himself. And even if Jesus did hold that opinion of himself, it doesn't mean that he was. There have been delusional individuals in every generation, even very charismatic ones. But again, we don't know if he ever made such a claim. Just because the Gospel of John makes that claim for Jesus it doesn't a) make it true, or b) mean that Jesus actually said it. He may have, but he may not have. But even if he did...it's the height of gullibity to believe everything one reads in a 'holy book' (of any origin). I don't think that I'm making a controversial statement here. I'm simply stating what seems (to me) highly obvious.

A case in point. There was a charismatic Jewish leader in New York who was assassinated twenty years ago (Menachem Schneerson). At no point during his life did he claim to be the messiah. But after his death his followers became convinced that he was indeed the messiah. They even started making up miraculous stories about him, which his family insisted were fabrications. They still await his return. Even look at the magical stories that North Koreans tell about the birth and death of Kim Il Sung. It's the human creative instinct at work. That, after all, is why we have other religions too. (I think one of Christianity's greatest weknesses is its inability to adequately explain why other religions exist alongside Christianity. Clearly religions - plenty of them with massive followings - can emerge and grow without any divine assistance.)

I think Bart Ehrmann has shown that the New Testament is, like the scriptures of those other faiths, a fully human document. I highly recommend both Jesus Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus by Ehrmann. He is a respected biblical scholar and a former evangelical who had nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by coming to the conclusions that he did. I don't believe anyone can read those two books and still hold to the case that the NT is a divinely-inspired text.

Cheers.
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: don't answer me.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
I'll just leave this here then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr4wGFJrSss


sweet exit, dead bear-kill... i love that tune! Cool

i dig this tune more tho...so dance with me while singing along...
'whats my name?' Wink

Arrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8 Cool
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricochet wrote:
Died By Bear wrote:
I'll just leave this here then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr4wGFJrSss


sweet exit, dead bear-kill... i love that tune! Cool

i dig this tune more tho...so dance with me while singing along...
'whats my name?' Wink

Arrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8 Cool



IMO you're confusing the interpretation of the Stones on the lyrics. The founding rockster fathers never meant we should take those words literally. In fact, their greatest song is not 'Sympathy for the Devil', but 'Gimmie Shelter' - in fact, if you were astute in these kinds of things, you would have acknowledged this on your own without me having to point it out to you.

A true student of rock n roll would never post that tune. Wink Wink


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM8ix0siRVQ
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Taylormade



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it (Proverbs 14:6, The New King James Version).

Goodbye


Zackback, where are you? I showed you a list of English translations of the passage in Mark. Translations agreed upon by scholars who understand ancient Greek. Not one of them confirms your understanding of "ego eimi". Instead of refuting these experts you post a quote from Proverbs and run away to bury your head in the sand. You are disappointing the readers of this thread. I hope you aren't busy praying to Yahweh to strike me down, because I have to go to work next week. Anyway, I am awaiting your return.

One more thing. Being a "scoffer who seeks wisdom" if you haven't returned to this thread after two thousand years I'll just conclude you aren't coming back.
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: don't answer me.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
blah blah blah...in fact, if you were astute in these kinds of things, you would have acknowledged this on your own without me having to point it out to your handsome ass.


u got dat wrong, bear-bait-breath... Wink

listen, interpret, while u dance and sing with my handsome ass:

Arrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwby-XvzpH8 Cool

save the tigers, too. Wink


Last edited by ricochet on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricochet wrote:
blah blah blah, gay gay gay


Qorpheus, where are you? I showed you a list of lyric translations of the passage in youtube. Translations agreed upon by scholars who understand ancient rock n roll. Not one of them confirms your understanding of "rock". Instead of refuting these experts you post a quote from youtube and run away to bury your head in the sand. You are disappointing the readers of this thread. I hope you aren't busy praying to satan to strike me down, because I have to go to work next week. Anyway, I am awaiting your return.

One more thing. Being a "scoffer who seeks wisdom" if you haven't returned to this thread after two thousand years I'll just conclude you aren't coming back.[/quote]
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: don't answer me.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
ricochet wrote:
blah blah blah, gay gay gay


Qorpheus, where are you? I showed you a list of lyric translations of the passage in youtube. Translations agreed upon by scholars who understand ancient rock n roll. Not one of them confirms your understanding of "rock". Instead of refuting these experts you post a quote from youtube and run away to bury your head in the sand. You are disappointing the readers of this thread. I hope you aren't busy praying to satan to strike me down, because I have to go to work next week. Anyway, I am awaiting your return.

One more thing. Being a "scoffer who seeks wisdom" if you haven't returned to this thread after two thousand years I'll just conclude you aren't coming back.


tease

look out Arrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWuXmfgXVxY Cool

i got blisters on my fingers! Cool


Last edited by ricochet on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I give up, you win. Did you ever get back together with the wife? You've been in Korea forever. How's your boy? He must be at least 12 by now eh. Did you ever find a home for the dog? Happy new year old brother Very Happy
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: don't answer me.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
I give up, you win. Did you ever get back together with the wife? You've been in Korea forever. How's your boy? He must be at least 12 by now eh. Did you ever find a home for the dog? Happy new year old brother Very Happy


yeah thank God. he, she are safe here in the Korea. how about you, bear breath? Wink


Last edited by ricochet on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A life fought for others is a life worth living. That is a noble thing my man.
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: don't answer me.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
A life fought for others is a life worth living. That is a noble thing my man.


double tease! Shocked


Last edited by ricochet on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricochet wrote:
Died By Bear wrote:
A life fought for others is a life worth living. That is a noble thing my man.


i hate you. you know? i hate you. so much. nobody that you will ever meet will hate you more as much as i do. and, if i had a gun like you have, i would use it to shoot you dead. Crying or Very sad

kids, they were innocent children...no, i love you Yanks, but this one is just too hard for an old teacher to take. ok? so sorry but thats how i feel. Crying or Very sad


I believe you. Happy New Year brother. It's been ten years since we met.
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: don't answer me.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
ricochet wrote:
Died By Bear wrote:
A life fought for others is a life worth living. That is a noble thing my man.


double tease!Shocked


I believe you. Happy New Year brother. It's been ten years since we met.


you too. Happy New Year. Cool

..please, post a song in my New Years 2013 party thread ok? Wink
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Kim Jong Jordan



Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasn't this just supposed to be a merry christmas thread?
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kim Jong Jordan wrote:
wasn't this just supposed to be a merry christmas thread?


It was until the zealots hijacked it, then we all started getting silly.
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