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HIV/AIDS Tests as a Proxy for RacialDiscrimination?
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Stop comparing your situation with the citizens of Korea!! There is the problem. You are not a Korean citizen, you are a transient temporary worker. How the nation of Korea treats its own citizens is not your concern. You are trying to compare apples to rocket launchers. Your situation and your job are not comparable to a Korean nationals position.

Different does not mean discrimination. It means different. You are treated differently because your situation is different.

When your family and you have paid taxes for decades when you have served in the Korean armed forces when you have the ties to the country that native Koreans have , ties that umbilical, perhaps you should be treated differently than a young westerner coming to Korea for a year or so.
Their is just no equivalency between your position and koreans.

if you feel strongly about this leave. People leave Korea everyday. No biggie.


I'm going to use small words for you, perhaps then you might get it. Although I'm skeptical.

It goes like this:

"You must take an AIDS test to get an E2 Visa"

"Why?"

"Because you are a foreigner who wants an E2."

"Do other teachers or people who work with children have to take an AIDS test?"

"No."

"Do other foreigners with different work visas require an AIDS test."

"No."

"So why do I need to get one, again?"

"Because you are dirty, probably on drugs and have AIDS from all the dirty druggie sex you've been having with unclean non-Korean people and now you want to come to Korea with all your drugs and AIDS sex and infect our pure-blooded Korean citizens."

This is racism.

rac·ism [rey-siz-uh m]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

They--those pushing the test, not all Koreans--believe that by pure accident of birth and a demonstrably absurd idea that their blood is "pure", that they are in a higher position than us dirty foreigners. In an attempt to delegitimize us (I know that's a big word, I'm sorry) they use the test to suggest that we're such a threat to their great society that we have to be screened.

The reason it is a racist action is because they don't care if we are a threat or not, they just want to keep us in our place or kick us out if they can. As someone else pointed out, they don't even require prostitutes to take an AIDS test, only E2 visa holders.

But I have a strong feelings I'm wasting my time with you. You seem to be a powerful kind of stupid.
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Who's Your Daddy?



Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: The joy's in the ride.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
.

I'd support AIDS testing for immigration both here and back home...

And yes, let's test the Koreans too.




Except while Immigration has the power to require foreigners to get tested...they don't have the power to require the locals (Koreans to get tested).

The latter is not within the purview of Immigration.


My understanding it is now the Education office is requiring these tests? Couldn't the education office require it of their Korean staff too?
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more time.

E2 is not a race.

Again you compare yourself to a citizen of korea. You are not and do not have the burdens , the obligations of those people. You have different ones.

There is a reason that health tests are given to foreign workers in all countries to prevent the spread of disease. Also to not add a burden to the national healthcare system. That is something you seem to be missing

but thinking that E2 is a race. I am just not sure???

Once again you are always free to leave. Or you can continue to be a victim of the terrible koreans who gave you a job and an apartment, for being a part time tutor.
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all foreign workers. Sex workers trafficked in on E-6 visas are exempt.

Two kids from the same foreign family can potentially face two different standards as well. Thousands of unwanted Korean babies are adopted by foreign families each year. If a family has adopted one and also has a biological child of their own, if they end up teaching in South Korea, the white member of the family will have to be HIV tested before getting a work visa, but the ethnic Korean adoptee will be exempt even though he or she is a member of the exact same family with the exact same upbringing in the exact same country.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
.

I'd support AIDS testing for immigration both here and back home...

And yes, let's test the Koreans too.




Except while Immigration has the power to require foreigners to get tested...they don't have the power to require the locals (Koreans to get tested).

The latter is not within the purview of Immigration.


My understanding it is now the Education office is requiring these tests? Couldn't the education office require it of their Korean staff too?


It was all hashed out in this thread below (bolding mine)

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=219055&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=creed&start=15

Quote:
ursus_rex wrote:
Have the rules changed? I work at an institute in Hanam City. I've been told that I now have to get a CRC, a notarized degree (I'm Canadian) and all the documentation that is required by an E-2 applicant.

I've never had to do all this before... I'm hoping that the MOE official that is asking for this documentation is mistaken. I'm working for a hagwon after all, not a public school, and I though F-2 holders had the same employment rights as Korean nationals. I'm okay with all the paperwork, but only if a Korean in the same job has to do likewise (which I do not think is the case). I've been in Korea 11 years and rarely return to Canada, so that getting these documents is going to be a major headache. I'm also worried that I will do all the groundwork and the Korean consulate in Canada will eventually respond by asking why I am doing all this E-2 paperwork when I have an F-2 visa.

Does anyone with a similar visa know if I need get all this paperwork done for a private institute?

Thank-you.


If the academy is licensed by the MOE then yes, you need to get it done.
It is, since Feb of 2012 (law passed in July 2011) a requirement for all teachers regardless of race, creed, nationality or visa status.

Get it done or find a new occupation.

It is a MOE requirement and NOT an immigration issue.


According to ttompatz (who is something of a guru on these issues) it appears that ALL teachers have to hand in the paperwork.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
E2 is not a race.


*facepalm*

Almost all E2 holders are non-Koreans. The AIDS test is meant to target non-Korean E2 visa holders because of the racist stereotype that we are AIDS infected pervert drug users.

You really are daft.

-S-
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AbbeFaria wrote:
rollo wrote:
E2 is not a race.


*facepalm*

Almost all E2 holders are non-Koreans. The AIDS test is meant to target non-Korean E2 visa holders because of the racist stereotype that we are AIDS infected pervert drug users.

You really are daft.

-S-



While almost all E-2 holders are non-Koreans they make up only a small percentage of all expats here. A racist policy would target ALL expats rather than a small subsection of one group. This is based on VISA and not race.

Discriminatory yes.

Racist no.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
So all of those F-series visa holders who just don't happen to be paying taxes for ages and ages to Korea when they don't happen to be Korean citizens and also didn't happen to be serving in the Korean armed forces because they, again, don't happen to be Korean citizens were exempted from getting the test for the exact same job as the E-series holders for what reason again?

When the reason for the different treatment is based on race then, yes, it is racism.


Just to make something clear to you and Rollo...

I've been paying taxes here since some of you were in elementary school. Many of the members here who hold an F-visa can make the same claim. I own property (as many other F-visa holders) and I have even owned a couple of businesses in my many years residing here. So, I didn't serve in the Korean military? Neither did my wife.

I also know someone on an E visa who's been living in Korea on and off since he was a child in the '60s, then as a long time member of the USFK, and most recently (the last 10 years or so) as a teacher.

No significant connection to this country? You think?

But, yes, CentralCali, you're right that beginning to demand an HIV test was motivated by xenophobia. The fact a specific segment of the population is aimed, the timing (shortly after CPN's arrest), and the fact they consulted a hate group ahead of making this decision is sufficient evidence to this in my opinion.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
AbbeFaria wrote:
rollo wrote:
E2 is not a race.


*facepalm*

Almost all E2 holders are non-Koreans. The AIDS test is meant to target non-Korean E2 visa holders because of the racist stereotype that we are AIDS infected pervert drug users.

You really are daft.

-S-



While almost all E-2 holders are non-Koreans they make up only a small percentage of all expats here. A racist policy would target ALL expats rather than a small subsection of one group. This is based on VISA and not race.

Discriminatory yes.

Racist no.


Exactly.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dumbing down continues.

koREAN IS NOT A RACE!!!!

YES YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE, A noN kOREAN WOULD NEED A VISA TO LIVE/WORK IN kOREA.

a NON kOREAN IS NOT A kOREAN CITIZEN SO RULES WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

dIFFERENT NOT ALWAYS BAD. Medical testing for H.I.V. is a good thing,

Sue your alma mater I mean damn you got cheated man
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
The dumbing down continues.

koREAN IS NOT A RACE!!!!

YES YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE, A noN kOREAN WOULD NEED A VISA TO LIVE/WORK IN kOREA.

a NON kOREAN IS NOT A kOREAN CITIZEN SO RULES WOULD BE DIFFERENT.


It's the South Korean government who considers Koreans to be a distinct racial group.

From the article:

The MOJ’s new measures for E-2 visa holders, announced just four days after this meeting, reflected the position advocated by the group of requiring E-2 visa holders to be subject to HIV and drug tests. The MOJ’s decision to exclude foreign teachers with Korean ethnicity from the HIV and drug test requirements (as well as Korean citizen teachers who were already exempt), a move that the MOJ described as “reasonable discrimination” in accordance with “our authority and policy to favor ethnic Koreans,” also resembles the position advocated by the group, whose leader has said that ethnic Korean teachers should be able to avoid these tests since “treating brethren of the Republic of Korea like foreigners would be unreasonable.”

In other words, the MOJ exempted "ethnic Korean" foreigners from HIV tests, and required HIV tests only for foreigners who aren't ethnic Koreans. This strongly indicates the decision was based on ethnicity, not nationality or citizenship.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry 12 by 2 was not discussing f visa holders. Only E2.

No E visa in the 60's so not sure about that one. F visa holders are an entirely different situation, You are not temporary workers but people who have put down roots in Korea.

Perhaps you can answer this. Why is having this medical test such a big deal?? the medical community thinks testing is good. Who cares about who does and does not have to take the test. That just seems childish.

As far as a human rights violation , meh really don't see that it rates with imprisonment, starvation , torture.

perhaps those who complain so loudly about the way that korean's perceive them, should change some behaviors and improve their teaching skills.
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EZE wrote:
rollo wrote:
The dumbing down continues.

koREAN IS NOT A RACE!!!!

YES YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE, A noN kOREAN WOULD NEED A VISA TO LIVE/WORK IN kOREA.

a NON kOREAN IS NOT A kOREAN CITIZEN SO RULES WOULD BE DIFFERENT.


It's the South Korean government who considers Koreans to be a distinct racial group.

From the article:

The MOJ’s new measures for E-2 visa holders, announced just four days after this meeting, reflected the position advocated by the group of requiring E-2 visa holders to be subject to HIV and drug tests. The MOJ’s decision to exclude foreign teachers with Korean ethnicity from the HIV and drug test requirements (as well as Korean citizen teachers who were already exempt), a move that the MOJ described as “reasonable discrimination” in accordance with “our authority and policy to favor ethnic Koreans,” also resembles the position advocated by the group, whose leader has said that ethnic Korean teachers should be able to avoid these tests since “treating brethren of the Republic of Korea like foreigners would be unreasonable.”

In other words, the MOJ exempted "ethnic Korean" foreigners from HIV tests, and required HIV tests only for foreigners who aren't ethnic Koreans. This strongly indicates the decision was based on ethnicity, not nationality or citizenship.


I agree with your opinion and even though the MOJ admits it our 2nd(TheUrbanMyth) and 3rd place(PatrickGHBusan) finishers cannot.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Reasonable discrimination" there you go, thanks for quoting that.

Racism...nope.

Reasonable discrimination...sure.

Now, shall we explain for the slow ones the difference between a sponsored foreign worker and a resident or citizen when it comes labor rights, immigration issues?

oh and those ethnic Koreans that were "excluded" from testing as those who have Korean ancestry or even parents who are citizens of Korea...but again..why bother about the details!

I mean this is pretty elemental but hey you never know for those late finishers...
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