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Why Canadians are Richer than Americans
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost right but the 95% number was pulled from his butt:

The United States also leads the world in medical treatments and finding new cures. In 2007, there were more than 2,700 medical compounds in trial studies in the United States. By contrast, the sum total for trials in every other country combined was only 1,700. These clinical studies and trials are extraordinarily expensive, but pharmaceutical companies routinely fund these billion-dollar studies because of the incentives that exist with the development of a new medical therapy.
The United States leads the world in privately funded medical studies, but if our government removes incentives from the free market system, research and development funding will dry up.
The United States is also the global leader in developing cutting- edge procedures, holding almost 65 percent of all medical patents.


Read more: Health care reform stifles innovation - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_14788033#ixzz2I07MDStF
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

What is unclear to me, though, is how much is this research due to private industry and how much is it by government and non-profit research funds. I'd like to see more statistics on that.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also wonder to what extent research funding will disappear. My guess is the funding will go somewhere and even with universal health care, it will continue to flow.

It is more like patching the holes in the American health care system not boarding up the boat and preventing research.

Research happens in America because of its preponderance of facilities and resources as much as it is money chasing money.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Over 95% of all medical advances in the last 20 years came from the u.S. healthcare system.


Really 95%, I am sure this not true. Source please.

There is one thing that is true. In the US, Pharmaceutical companies spent 19 Times more on advertising than on research. That's the free market efficiency for you. 19 times more spent on nothing. No wonder why medication is so expensive in the states.

BTW I have a source.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

In my own experience, half the comercials on the nightly news are for drugs in the states.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
In my own experience, half the comercials on the nightly news are for drugs in the states.


Would that include beer commercials?

I'm surprised how many Canadians are on this site, man, they get riled up.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
In my own experience, half the comercials on the nightly news are for drugs in the states.


Would that include beer commercials?

I'm surprised how many Canadians are on this site, man, they get riled up.


I'm 100% American. I just care about my home country and fixing it's problems. There are many government policy's that the Canadian's do better.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
In my own experience, half the comercials on the nightly news are for drugs in the states.


Would that include beer commercials?

I'm surprised how many Canadians are on this site, man, they get riled up.


I'm 100% American. I just care about my home country and fixing it's problems. There are many government policy's that the Canadian's do better.


Including education apparently.

Sorry to be a grammar nazi, but that was a little overboard in incorrect apostrophe usage.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
In my own experience, half the comercials on the nightly news are for drugs in the states.


Would that include beer commercials?

I'm surprised how many Canadians are on this site, man, they get riled up.


I'm 100% American. I just care about my home country and fixing it's problems. There are many government policy's that the Canadian's do better.


Including education apparently.

Sorry to be a grammar nazi, but that was a little overboard in incorrect apostrophe usage.


point taken
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
Quote:
Over 95% of all medical advances in the last 20 years came from the u.S. healthcare system.


Really 95%, I am sure this not true. Source please.

There is one thing that is true. In the US, Pharmaceutical companies spent 19 Times more on advertising than on research. That's the free market efficiency for you. 19 times more spent on nothing. No wonder why medication is so expensive in the states.

BTW I have a source.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

In my own experience, half the comercials on the nightly news are for drugs in the states.


In the US they are going to have a dumb tax on medical devices. Why don't they tax Pharmaceutical advertising instead?
The US government is really incompetent.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2012/12/17/obamacares-medical-device-tax-will-cost-innovation-and-jobs/
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
yeah Canadians do pay quite a bit for health care
the actual percentage of medical innovations and new treatments from the the U.s. system is actually a little more than 95%. Sorry almost all discoveries and advances come from that awful U.S. system.

the one real flaw in universal government care is the lack of motivation for research. The consumers just has no input into the quality of care.

As bad as the for profit model is according to some on the board it does pay for and spur new developments.


So, you're still stuck on that ridiculously high number despite the evidence? I'm done wasting my time on you.
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supernick



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Rollo, there are some reasons why some Canadians go to the U.S. for medical treatment. Some go because they don't want to wait and can pay for it. Good for them. Others go because they are sent there at the expense of the government as some services and specialist are available in the U.S. It is a good thing that us Canadians have easy access without always having to pay for facilities on a full-time basis when they are not needed all the time. By sharing hospital space on both sides of the border is a really good thing and can help to lower medical costs.

If the U.S. has the best, then why do so many Americans venture to Mexico, Korea, Thailand and India for medical treatment? If having the best but out of reach for many doesn't sound like such a good thing.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

supernick wrote:
Well, Rollo, there are some reasons why some Canadians go to the U.S. for medical treatment. Some go because they don't want to wait and can pay for it. Good for them. Others go because they are sent there at the expense of the government as some services and specialist are available in the U.S. It is a good thing that us Canadians have easy access without always having to pay for facilities on a full-time basis when they are not needed all the time. By sharing hospital space on both sides of the border is a really good thing and can help to lower medical costs.

If the U.S. has the best, then why do so many Americans venture to Mexico, Korea, Thailand and India for medical treatment? If having the best but out of reach for many doesn't sound like such a good thing.


Yes. I read that the majority of Canadian residents who go to the US specifically for medical treatment (and there were about 49000 last year) were sent there at the expense of the government. As you say, it's much cheaper than having to maintain the facilities, especially for treating rare illnesses.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So not having medical facilities is a GOOD thing? Wow!!! the purpose of health care is to save money??? I am not sure of your point there. It sounds more like large holes in the Canadian system

Anyway I know you guys are so touchy about your healthcare system. i just cant help myself.

But we Americans as always are willing to help out our Canadian cousins when they can not take care of themselves. So we will continue to help when you get cancer and get put on a waiting list or you need kidney dialysis or whatever your system does not provide. It's all about Love.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

supernick wrote:
If the U.S. has the best, then why do so many Americans venture to Mexico, Korea, Thailand and India for medical treatment?

Because it's cheaper, and of comparable quality at their top international hospitals - because most of those kinds of hospitals are modeled after what we have in the US. You can go to Bangkok, for example, and get treatment at some wonderful private hospitals that are typically far cheaper than what it costs in the US. Basically it's what the US system should be like, if weren't as expensive as it is (and it's so expensive for reasons I've already discussed, namely because of government regulation and licensing restrictions etc.).

Long story short, privately run hospitals are typically far better than anything you see in socialized healthcare systems. You might get the odd flagship government hospital that throws enough money around to have the best facilities and equipment, but your average hospital in Canada or the UK simply cannot compare (not meant to be derisive here, but it's simply true)... Honestly, people from countries with socialist healthcare should try going to places like Thailand if they ever need a minor procedure/surgery done, and check out the private hospitals they have there (since comparable US hospitals are probably out of their price range). They really don't know what they're missing...
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also in the US your average insurance company is able to negotiate a 75 -80% discount over what an average person pays. If it were just that insurance companies and regular folks got the same price that would go a long a way to improving the system.

I don't know if many know this.

Why ought insurance companies be able to get discounts? That means everyone else has to make up the difference and get overcharged.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
supernick wrote:
If the U.S. has the best, then why do so many Americans venture to Mexico, Korea, Thailand and India for medical treatment?

Because it's cheaper, and of comparable quality at their top international hospitals - because most of those kinds of hospitals are modeled after what we have in the US. You can go to Bangkok, for example, and get treatment at some wonderful private hospitals that are typically far cheaper than what it costs in the US. Basically it's what the US system should be like, if weren't as expensive as it is (and it's so expensive for reasons I've already discussed, namely because of government regulation and licensing restrictions etc.).

Long story short, privately run hospitals are typically far better than anything you see in socialized healthcare systems. You might get the odd flagship government hospital that throws enough money around to have the best facilities and equipment, but your average hospital in Canada or the UK simply cannot compare (not meant to be derisive here, but it's simply true)... Honestly, people from countries with socialist healthcare should try going to places like Thailand if they ever need a minor procedure/surgery done, and check out the private hospitals they have there (since comparable US hospitals are probably out of their price range). They really don't know what they're missing...


Modeled after what you have in the US? You're too much. Really.

As for the rest. Sure, if you say so.

"Socialist healthcare"...Freudian slip, eh?

Here's a strong dose of reality for you...
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf
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