Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Why Canadians are Richer than Americans
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this is true but this just came out and it certainly does not make U.S. Healthcare look good:

http://www.nationofchange.org/us-health-worse-nearly-all-other-industrialised-countries-1357918699


U.S. citizens suffer from poorer health than nearly all other industrialized countries, according to the first comprehensive government analysis on the subject, released Wednesday.

Of 17 high-income countries looked at by a committee of experts sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, the United States is at or near the bottom in at least nine indicators.

These include infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, and adolescent pregnancies, as well as more systemic issues such as injuries, homicides, and rates of disability.

Together, such issues place U.S. males at the very bottom of the list, among those countries, for life expectancy; on average, a U.S. male can be expected to live almost four fewer years than those in the top-ranked country, Switzerland. U.S. females fare little better, ranked 16th out of the 17 high-income countries under review.

“We were stunned by the propensity of findings all on the negative side – the scope of the disadvantage covers all ages, from babies to seniors, both sexes, all classes of society,” Steven H. Woolf, a professor of family medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University and chair of the panel that wrote the report, told IPS.

“It’s unclear whether some of these patterns will be experienced by other countries in the years to come, but developing countries will undoubtedly begin facing some of these issues as they take on more habits similar to the United States. Currently, however, even countries in the developing world are outpacing the U.S. in certain outcomes.”

Although the new findings offer a uniquely comprehensive view of the problem, the fact is that U.S. citizens have for decades been dying at younger ages than those in nearly all other industrialized countries. The committee looked at data going back to the 1970s to note that such a trend has been worsening at least since then, with women particularly affected.

“A particular concern with these findings was about adolescents, about whom we document very serious issues that, again, stand out starkly from other counties,” Woolf says.

(There is more so if you want to read all, you need to follow the link).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very skeptical of those numbers. Not that the U.s. does not have health care problems. but some countries do their health care statistics differently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget wealth; Canadians are happier than Americans.

Canada places a respectable number 6 on the top 10 happiest countries. America doesn't make it to the top 10.

And our weather is better. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What else? They are all borderline socialist states, with generous welfare benefits and lots of redistribution of wealth. Yet they don't let that socialism cross the line into autocracy. Civil liberties are abundant (consider decriminalized drugs and prostitution in the Netherlands). There are few restrictions on the flow of capital or of labor.


Who would have guessed? Who could have imagined that actually ensuring a basic standard of living for the lower classes would result in a happy, healthy, prosperous society? It contradicts everything the complete jerks who study economics have told me is true!

But yeah, let's exile the economists. Or make them drink hemlock, that would be fine too. Mighty fine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Quote:

What else? They are all borderline socialist states, with generous welfare benefits and lots of redistribution of wealth. Yet they don't let that socialism cross the line into autocracy. Civil liberties are abundant (consider decriminalized drugs and prostitution in the Netherlands). There are few restrictions on the flow of capital or of labor.


Who would have guessed? Who could have imagined that actually ensuring a basic standard of living for the lower classes would result in a happy, healthy, prosperous society? It contradicts everything the complete jerks who study economics have told me is true!

But yeah, let's exile the economists. Or make them drink hemlock, that would be fine too. Mighty fine.


The economists aren't the problem, per se. Its the management class.

Quote:
[Frederick Winslow] Taylor was forty-three years old and on contract with the Bethlehem Steel Company when the pig iron question hit him. Staring out over an industrial yard that covered several square miles of the Pennsylvania landscape, he watched as laborers loaded ninety-two-pound bars onto rail cars. There were 80,000 tons’ worth of iron bars, which were to be carted off as fast as possible to meet new demand sparked by the Spanish-American War. Taylor narrowed his eyes: there was waste there, he was certain. After hastily reviewing the books at company headquarters, he estimated that the men were currently loading iron at the rate of twelve and a half tons per man per day.

Taylor stormed down to the yard with his assistants (“college men,” he called them) and rounded up a group of top-notch lifters (“first-class men”), who in this case happened to be ten “large, powerful Hungarians.” He offered to double the workers’ wages in exchange for their participation in an experiment. The Hungarians, eager to impress their apparent benefactor, put on a spirited show. Huffing up and down the rail car ramps, they loaded sixteen and a half tons in something under fourteen minutes. Taylor did the math: over a ten-hour day, it worked out to seventy-five tons per day per man. Naturally, he had to allow time for bathroom breaks, lunch, and rest periods, so he adjusted the figure approximately 40 percent downward. Henceforth, each laborer in the yard was assigned to load forty-seven and a half pig tons per day, with bonus pay for reaching the target and penalties for failing.

When the Hungarians realized that they were being asked to quadruple their previous daily workload, they howled and refused to work. So Taylor found a “high-priced man,” a lean Pennsylvania Dutchman whose intelligence he compared to that of an ox. Lured by the promise of a 60 percent increase in wages, from $1.15 to a whopping $1.85 a day, Taylor’s high-priced man loaded forty-five and three-quarters tons over the course of a grueling day—close enough, in Taylor’s mind, to count as the first victory for the methods of modern management.

. . .

That Taylorism and its modern variants are often just a way of putting labor in its place need hardly be stated: from the Hungarians’ point of view, the pig iron experiment was an infuriatingly obtuse way of demanding more work for less pay. That management theory represents a covert assault on capital, however, is equally true. (The Soviet five-year planning process took its inspiration directly from one of Taylor’s more ardent followers, the engineer H. L. Gantt.) Much of management theory today is in fact the consecration of class interest—not of the capitalist class, nor of labor, but of a new social group: the management class.

I can confirm on the basis of personal experience that management consulting continues to worship at the shrine of numerology where Taylor made his first offering of blobs of fudge. In many of my own projects, I found myself compelled to pacify recalcitrant data with entirely confected numbers. But I cede the place of honor to a certain colleague, a gruff and street-smart Belgian whose hobby was to amass hunting trophies. The huntsman achieved some celebrity for having invented a new mathematical technique dubbed “the Two-Handed Regression.” When the data on the correlation between two variables revealed only a shapeless cloud—even though we knew damn well there had to be a correlation—he would simply place a pair of meaty hands on the offending bits of the cloud and reveal the straight line hiding from conventional mathematics.


There are a lot of MBA grads cloistered in the economics sector of academia. So there is some overlap. But the dismal science has some science to it, unlike management theory.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Forget wealth; Canadians are happier than Americans.

Canada places a respectable number 6 on the top 10 happiest countries. America doesn't make it to the top 10.

And our weather is better. Confused

I don't believe those statistics for even a second. How do you quantify happiness? I don't think I've ever met a Scandinavian who wasn't borderline depressed (and I've met my fair share). Finland and Sweden both have higher suicide rates than the US, and Norway, Denmark, and Ireland are right on par with the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Canada, Australia, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, and Ireland all have substantially higher alcohol consumption rates than the US as well (for what it's worth):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

No doubt the US has its fair share of problems, but to suggest we're less happy than depressed denizens of northern Europe is taking it a bit far. I strongly suspect that Americans are over-classified as being "depressed" in the first place, since it gives doctors an excuse to put more of us on antidepressant meds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not worry, Kuros, we have enough hemlock for them as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:




The economists aren't the problem, per se. Its the management class.

Quote:
[Frederick Winslow] Taylor was forty-three years old and on contract with the Bethlehem Steel Company when the pig iron question hit him. Staring out over an industrial yard that covered several square miles of the Pennsylvania landscape, he watched as laborers loaded ninety-two-pound bars onto rail cars. There were 80,000 tons’ worth of iron bars, which were to be carted off as fast as possible to meet new demand sparked by the Spanish-American War. Taylor narrowed his eyes: there was waste there, he was certain. After hastily reviewing the books at company headquarters, he estimated that the men were currently loading iron at the rate of twelve and a half tons per man per day.

Taylor stormed down to the yard with his assistants (“college men,” he called them) and rounded up a group of top-notch lifters (“first-class men”), who in this case happened to be ten “large, powerful Hungarians.” He offered to double the workers’ wages in exchange for their participation in an experiment. The Hungarians, eager to impress their apparent benefactor, put on a spirited show. Huffing up and down the rail car ramps, they loaded sixteen and a half tons in something under fourteen minutes. Taylor did the math: over a ten-hour day, it worked out to seventy-five tons per day per man. Naturally, he had to allow time for bathroom breaks, lunch, and rest periods, so he adjusted the figure approximately 40 percent downward. Henceforth, each laborer in the yard was assigned to load forty-seven and a half pig tons per day, with bonus pay for reaching the target and penalties for failing.

When the Hungarians realized that they were being asked to quadruple their previous daily workload, they howled and refused to work. So Taylor found a “high-priced man,” a lean Pennsylvania Dutchman whose intelligence he compared to that of an ox. Lured by the promise of a 60 percent increase in wages, from $1.15 to a whopping $1.85 a day, Taylor’s high-priced man loaded forty-five and three-quarters tons over the course of a grueling day—close enough, in Taylor’s mind, to count as the first victory for the methods of modern management.

. . .

That Taylorism and its modern variants are often just a way of putting labor in its place need hardly be stated: from the Hungarians’ point of view, the pig iron experiment was an infuriatingly obtuse way of demanding more work for less pay. That management theory represents a covert assault on capital, however, is equally true. (The Soviet five-year planning process took its inspiration directly from one of Taylor’s more ardent followers, the engineer H. L. Gantt.) Much of management theory today is in fact the consecration of class interest—not of the capitalist class, nor of labor, but of a new social group: the management class.

I can confirm on the basis of personal experience that management consulting continues to worship at the shrine of numerology where Taylor made his first offering of blobs of fudge. In many of my own projects, I found myself compelled to pacify recalcitrant data with entirely confected numbers. But I cede the place of honor to a certain colleague, a gruff and street-smart Belgian whose hobby was to amass hunting trophies. The huntsman achieved some celebrity for having invented a new mathematical technique dubbed “the Two-Handed Regression.” When the data on the correlation between two variables revealed only a shapeless cloud—even though we knew damn well there had to be a correlation—he would simply place a pair of meaty hands on the offending bits of the cloud and reveal the straight line hiding from conventional mathematics.


There are a lot of MBA grads cloistered in the economics sector of academia. So there is some overlap. But the dismal science has some science to it, unlike management theory.



The whole problem could have been solved by something called

"piece-work". Ask any tree-planter how much they prefer it to being

paid by the hour.

just sayin'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
I don't know if this is true but this just came out and it certainly does not make U.S. Healthcare look good:

http://www.nationofchange.org/us-health-worse-nearly-all-other-industrialised-countries-1357918699


U.S. citizens suffer from poorer health than nearly all other industrialized countries, according to the first comprehensive government analysis on the subject, released Wednesday.

Of 17 high-income countries looked at by a committee of experts sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, the United States is at or near the bottom in at least nine indicators.

These include infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, and adolescent pregnancies, as well as more systemic issues such as injuries, homicides, and rates of disability.

Together, such issues place U.S. males at the very bottom of the list, among those countries, for life expectancy; on average, a U.S. male can be expected to live almost four fewer years than those in the top-ranked country, Switzerland. U.S. females fare little better, ranked 16th out of the 17 high-income countries under review.

“We were stunned by the propensity of findings all on the negative side – the scope of the disadvantage covers all ages, from babies to seniors, both sexes, all classes of society,” Steven H. Woolf, a professor of family medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University and chair of the panel that wrote the report, told IPS.

“It’s unclear whether some of these patterns will be experienced by other countries in the years to come, but developing countries will undoubtedly begin facing some of these issues as they take on more habits similar to the United States. Currently, however, even countries in the developing world are outpacing the U.S. in certain outcomes.”

Although the new findings offer a uniquely comprehensive view of the problem, the fact is that U.S. citizens have for decades been dying at younger ages than those in nearly all other industrialized countries. The committee looked at data going back to the 1970s to note that such a trend has been worsening at least since then, with women particularly affected.

“A particular concern with these findings was about adolescents, about whom we document very serious issues that, again, stand out starkly from other counties,” Woolf says.

(There is more so if you want to read all, you need to follow the link).


One thing I'd like to point out is that frequently, when you reach the developed world, the difference between the 15th spot on the list and 5th spot on the list in surveys (whether about health, education, economy, etc.) is of such a margin so as to be barely significant or not even statistically significant at all.

I'd also submit that the American penchant for drinking a 44oz. drum of cola with a meal or eating salads slathered in deep fried chicken breasts and cheese may skew things a touch.

There's also the atrocious state of our nation's school cafeteria lunches which have bombarded whole generations of kids with the worst food possible and conditioned them to think of corn as a vegetable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Unposter wrote:
I don't know if this is true but this just came out and it certainly does not make U.S. Healthcare look good:

http://www.nationofchange.org/us-health-worse-nearly-all-other-industrialised-countries-1357918699


U.S. citizens suffer from poorer health than nearly all other industrialized countries, according to the first comprehensive government analysis on the subject, released Wednesday.

Of 17 high-income countries looked at by a committee of experts sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, the United States is at or near the bottom in at least nine indicators.

These include infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, and adolescent pregnancies, as well as more systemic issues such as injuries, homicides, and rates of disability.

Together, such issues place U.S. males at the very bottom of the list, among those countries, for life expectancy; on average, a U.S. male can be expected to live almost four fewer years than those in the top-ranked country, Switzerland. U.S. females fare little better, ranked 16th out of the 17 high-income countries under review.

“We were stunned by the propensity of findings all on the negative side – the scope of the disadvantage covers all ages, from babies to seniors, both sexes, all classes of society,” Steven H. Woolf, a professor of family medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University and chair of the panel that wrote the report, told IPS.

“It’s unclear whether some of these patterns will be experienced by other countries in the years to come, but developing countries will undoubtedly begin facing some of these issues as they take on more habits similar to the United States. Currently, however, even countries in the developing world are outpacing the U.S. in certain outcomes.”

Although the new findings offer a uniquely comprehensive view of the problem, the fact is that U.S. citizens have for decades been dying at younger ages than those in nearly all other industrialized countries. The committee looked at data going back to the 1970s to note that such a trend has been worsening at least since then, with women particularly affected.

“A particular concern with these findings was about adolescents, about whom we document very serious issues that, again, stand out starkly from other counties,” Woolf says.

(There is more so if you want to read all, you need to follow the link).


One thing I'd like to point out is that frequently, when you reach the developed world, the difference between the 15th spot on the list and 5th spot on the list in surveys (whether about health, education, economy, etc.) is of such a margin so as to be barely significant or not even statistically significant at all.

I'd also submit that the American penchant for drinking a 44oz. drum of cola with a meal or eating salads slathered in deep fried chicken breasts and cheese may skew things a touch.

There's also the atrocious state of our nation's school cafeteria lunches which have bombarded whole generations of kids with the worst food possible and conditioned them to think of corn as a vegetable.


Seems like a excuse to me. Whatever happened to "USA #1"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Seems like a excuse to me. Whatever happened to "USA #1"?

The US is "#1" in many cases - just not "on average" (though often still near the top). But if you want to find the best hospitals and schools/universities in the world (as in 'top ranking') then most are in fact in the US.

And before you counter with: "but the average is all that matters since only rich people can afford the best", I'll simply state that that's your opinion. The case can certainly be made either way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Seems like a excuse to me. Whatever happened to "USA #1"?


That seems to be a claim of the past. nowadays, it seems more likely to see the US compared to Iraq or Russia or Afghanistan.

I find that sad, actually.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Seems like a excuse to me. Whatever happened to "USA #1"?


That seems to be a claim of the past. nowadays, it seems more likely to see the US compared to Iraq or Russia or Afghanistan.

I find that sad, actually.

What's sad is the level of unmitigated ignorance you display, time and again. The US is on par with Iraq?? Thanks for the laugh.

If I ever had to move from the US to go live in Canada, I would find that sad, actually. You think it's so great? Well you can have it. If I had to live there I would probably go out of my mind from boredom more than anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Seems like a excuse to me. Whatever happened to "USA #1"?


That seems to be a claim of the past. nowadays, it seems more likely to see the US compared to Iraq or Russia or Afghanistan.

I find that sad, actually.

What's sad is the level of unmitigated ignorance you display, time and again. The US is on par with Iraq?? Thanks for the laugh.

If I ever had to move from the US to go live in Canada, I would find that sad, actually. You think it's so great? Well you can have it. If I had to live there I would probably go out of my mind from boredom more than anything.


Funny how you brought Canada into it - I didn't. But that goes to show how truly pathetic your reasoning is. I've always compared the Us to other developed democratic countries. In fact, I held the US in pretty high regard.

But looking at how you cherry pick your comparisons for ... well, The War on ___________ , it's obvious how sad of a place you're in.


I also find it sad how poor your reading skills are. No where did I say that the US is "on par with Iraq" - but no doubt you'll chime in with some personal insult, and then declare some sort of lame WIN. lol
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Seems like a excuse to me. Whatever happened to "USA #1"?

The US is "#1" in many cases - just not "on average" (though often still near the top). But if you want to find the best hospitals and schools/universities in the world (as in 'top ranking') then most are in fact in the US.

And before you counter with: "but the average is all that matters since only rich people can afford the best", I'll simply state that that's your opinion. The case can certainly be made either way.


Sure, many are in the US...but what percentage of the American population attends these schools? Heck, did you attend a top ranked school?


I did.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 12 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International