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Why Canadians are Richer than Americans
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


BTW minimum wage in Canada is $ 10.50 and that includes health care compare to $7.35 in the states without any health care.

But doctors do make more in Canada.

Quote:
Primary-care physicians include family doctors, pediatricians, internal-medicine specialists and obstetrician-gynecologists. Those in the U.S. earned an average after expenses in 2008 of $186,582, versus $125,000 in Canada

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09/14/canadian-doctors-still-make-dramatically-less-than-u-s-counterparts-study/


Last edited by No_hite_pls on Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Titus wrote:
I spend my working day evenings in a string of airport hotels. I can not count the number of times a Canadian has sat down at the bar/restaurant/patio/wherever and started lecturing the men around him about how Americans don't know Canada has provinces etc and go on about healthcare and Iraq and Vietnam. No shame. I've never heard a Mexican or Argentine or Frenchman behave similarly. Not once.


Oh, please. Americans love to talk about the US, but when a Canadian talks about Canada, he's being accused of being hyper nationalistic, especially if he or she dares say anything positive about the country. Heck, just look at the number of trolls this thread attracted.


I don't know if you're just obtuse, stubborn, or both. You have clearly missed the point of numerous posters on this thread and others.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


BTW minimum wage in Canada is $ 10.50 and that includes health care compare to $7.35 in the states without any health care.

Doctors in the states make on average $350,000 compare with only $250,000 in Canada though.



Where did you get that stat?

According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, it was $166K in 2010

This article states almost $188K in 2011

$350K sounds average for some specialties such as surgeons, but not docs in general.

And yes, $7.50 is the federal minimum wage, but in many states and cities, it is higher.

In regards to health care, there are signs of hope. Besides Obamacare, local governments such as San Francisco are creating public health insurance options. I think Vermont has one too.

Still a mess, but I have a tiny bit of hope that things will improve. If i were dictator, I'd just expand the fed employee health care plans to the entire populace. Huge pool of people, costs aren't prohibitively expensive, insurance companies still compete and make money, and patients have a dozen or so plans to choose from. Everyone wins!

As for the Pentagon and DoD budget, I really have no clue when this country will come to its senses about that.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
So odd hearing all of this bashing.

I grew up in Canada and enjoyed summers at the beach. However, I don't believe anyone on here, or anyone I've ever known, has ever claimed them to be world famous.

Far too much trolling going on in this thread.



Look, the thread has followed a healthy pattern. The first 20 or 25 posts are discussion about the root cause: housing. Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow (blaming American healthcare, false assertions that Canadian wages are higher). And then 12ax7 goes on a hyper-nationalist binge. Rollo then begins to bait him, and who could blame him?

Now we're at the stage where Captain Corea plays moderator. So we know the thread has *officially* outlived its usefulness.

Successful thread. Congrats to the OP, the early contributors. Thanks to 12ax7 for the entertainment.


So long as I played my part - I can eat lunch knowing I accomplished something Wink

enjoy, fellas.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i own a business that caters to expats. I often ban Canadians from my business. They are obsesseed with talking obut the U.S. and comaring it with Canada. they are also obsessed with pointing out how bad things are in the U.S.. obseesed is a mild term let me assure you. they are boring boring boring, and irritate my customers to no end. So as it stands i generally have a Canadian ban because of their inane prattle. It is not hypernationalism it is an inferiority complex concerning their standing against the U.s. if baffles me. Why not compare with Germany, or Russia, or Tahiti. No one enjoying a pint of beer needs to be subjected to an attack/diatiribe about healthcare, or the war of 1812. No other nationality does this.

I think it is Canadian politician who point to the U.s. to hide their own shortcomings perhaps.

Anyway i am mostly having fun. Canadians are having a good run right now economically because of the resource boom. enjoy
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Titus wrote:
I spend my working day evenings in a string of airport hotels. I can not count the number of times a Canadian has sat down at the bar/restaurant/patio/wherever and started lecturing the men around him about how Americans don't know Canada has provinces etc and go on about healthcare and Iraq and Vietnam. No shame. I've never heard a Mexican or Argentine or Frenchman behave similarly. Not once.


Oh, please. Americans love to talk about the US, but when a Canadian talks about Canada, he's being accused of being hyper nationalistic, especially if he or she dares say anything positive about the country. Heck, just look at the number of trolls this thread attracted.


I don't know if you're just obtuse, stubborn, or both. You have clearly missed the point of numerous posters on this thread and others.


Your ad hominem further adds weight to my comment you've quoted.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ad hominem argumentation is attacking someone's argument by means of commentary about them as a person. Bucheon Bum isn't making an ad hominem argument there, he's just insulting you. That's rude (which is not my place to condemn, given how frequently I myself am rude), but it's not logically fallacious.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Ad hominem argumentation is attacking someone's argument by means of commentary about them as a person. Bucheon Bum isn't making an ad hominem argument there, he's just insulting you. That's rude (which is not my place to condemn, given how frequently I myself am rude), but it's not logically fallacious.


Well, he is using insult to dispute my comments about trolling, which is immensely ironic.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


Show, don't tell.

Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Universal health care has helped to keep wealth in Canada. In Canada there are very few health care related foreclosures in the states there are many.


Source, please.

Homeowners can handle a healthcare catastrophe through a Chapter 13 repayment plan bankruptcy. They can pay 1% on the healthcare debt and in full on all secured assets, including the home. I'll admit that many homeowners aren't savvy enough to visit a lawyer until its too late.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Fox wrote:
Ad hominem argumentation is attacking someone's argument by means of commentary about them as a person. Bucheon Bum isn't making an ad hominem argument there, he's just insulting you. That's rude (which is not my place to condemn, given how frequently I myself am rude), but it's not logically fallacious.


Well, he is using insult to dispute my comments about trolling, which is immensely ironic.


Ok, I will elaborate. I was not disputing your comments about trolling (which, btw, Rollo already admitted to, so why would I dispute that? And I could care less about that subject anyway). It is just your amazing ability to fixate on just what you want to read and ignoring everything else. Two examples:

1. Highlighting a part of Rollo's rant, posting maps saying he's wrong, then Kuros pointing out no, in fact Rollo was right. Instead of re-reading what was written, you go on another rant saying how you're right instead of acknowledging the error or possibility you weren't clear to begin with.

2. In the case of Titus, focusing strictly on one part of what he said. For one, it isn't just saying how great Canada is, it is that COMBINED with bashing the USA for things dating back decades. Yeah, we get it. We hear it all the time from you all- thanks! Secondly, he didn't state Americans weren't obnoxious with their own patriotism either. Many of us are embarrassed by our countrymen who go on and on about how great our country is.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


Show, don't tell.

Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Universal health care has helped to keep wealth in Canada. In Canada there are very few health care related foreclosures in the states there are many.


Source, please.

Homeowners can handle a healthcare catastrophe through a Chapter 13 repayment plan bankruptcy. They can pay 1% on the healthcare debt and in full on all secured assets, including the home. I'll admit that many homeowners aren't savvy enough to visit a lawyer until its too late.


He probably meant there are many health care related bankruptcies, not foreclosures.

62% of bankruptcies in 2007 and I'm sure that's gone up since.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Fox wrote:
Ad hominem argumentation is attacking someone's argument by means of commentary about them as a person. Bucheon Bum isn't making an ad hominem argument there, he's just insulting you. That's rude (which is not my place to condemn, given how frequently I myself am rude), but it's not logically fallacious.


Well, he is using insult to dispute my comments about trolling, which is immensely ironic.


Ok, I will elaborate. I was not disputing your comments about trolling (which, btw, Rollo already admitted to, so why would I dispute that? And I could care less about that subject anyway). It is just your amazing ability to fixate on just what you want to read and ignoring everything else. Two examples:

1. Highlighting a part of Rollo's rant, posting maps saying he's wrong, then Kuros pointing out no, in fact Rollo was right. Instead of re-reading what was written, you go on another rant saying how you're right instead of acknowledging the error or possibility you weren't clear to begin with.

2. In the case of Titus, focusing strictly on one part of what he said. For one, it isn't just saying how great Canada is, it is that COMBINED with bashing the USA for things dating back decades. Yeah, we get it. We hear it all the time from you all- thanks! Secondly, he didn't state Americans weren't obnoxious with their own patriotism either. Many of us are embarrassed by our countrymen who go on and on about how great our country is.


That's also ironic since you're interpreting what I wrote.

1. For it to have been a rant, there would have had to have been malice. Read my comments about igloos and wanting no ill fortune to Americans.

2. Canadian jingoism is mild and a relative rarity in comparison to American jingoism, so...


Last edited by 12ax7 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


Show, don't tell.

Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Universal health care has helped to keep wealth in Canada. In Canada there are very few health care related foreclosures in the states there are many.


Source, please.

Homeowners can handle a healthcare catastrophe through a Chapter 13 repayment plan bankruptcy. They can pay 1% on the healthcare debt and in full on all secured assets, including the home. I'll admit that many homeowners aren't savvy enough to visit a lawyer until its too late.


He probably meant there are many health care related bankruptcies, not foreclosures.

62% of bankruptcies in 2007 and I'm sure that's gone up since.


Any recent figures? I'd be curious to know how they compare now that you've got "Obama care".
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


Show, don't tell.

Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Universal health care has helped to keep wealth in Canada. In Canada there are very few health care related foreclosures in the states there are many.


Source, please.

Homeowners can handle a healthcare catastrophe through a Chapter 13 repayment plan bankruptcy. They can pay 1% on the healthcare debt and in full on all secured assets, including the home. I'll admit that many homeowners aren't savvy enough to visit a lawyer until its too late.


He probably meant there are many health care related bankruptcies, not foreclosures.

62% of bankruptcies in 2007 and I'm sure that's gone up since.


Any recent figures? I'd be curious to know how they compare now that you've got "Obama care".


Well obamacare is being implemented step-by-step. Only a little of it has begun so far. I just figured the numbers went up a lot after the fiscal crisis in '08.

Regardless, those were the most recent figures I could find in the couple minutes I looked. Even recent news stories from 2012 had the same info (same % from same year). Looks like another study is overdue.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Then there are a bunch of bogus claims that follow blaming American healthcare,


You are wrong. Heath care costs and military adventurism are two of the largest problems for the US's economy. They are not the only problems but they are two big ones.


Show, don't tell.

Kuros wrote:
No_hite_pls wrote:
Universal health care has helped to keep wealth in Canada. In Canada there are very few health care related foreclosures in the states there are many.


Source, please.

Homeowners can handle a healthcare catastrophe through a Chapter 13 repayment plan bankruptcy. They can pay 1% on the healthcare debt and in full on all secured assets, including the home. I'll admit that many homeowners aren't savvy enough to visit a lawyer until its too late.


He probably meant there are many health care related bankruptcies, not foreclosures.

62% of bankruptcies in 2007 and I'm sure that's gone up since.


Any recent figures? I'd be curious to know how they compare now that you've got "Obama care".


Well obamacare is being implemented step-by-step. Only a little of it has begun so far. I just figured the numbers went up a lot after the fiscal crisis in '08.

Regardless, those were the most recent figures I could find in the couple minutes I looked. Even recent news stories from 2012 had the same info (same % from same year). Looks like another study is overdue.


I'm not so sure if the economy has changed the percentage since a greater number of people would have also filed for bankruptcy for other reasons. In any case, based on what I heard and read, health insurance in the US is pretty terrible, which makes me curious about the impact of its implementation.
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