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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: Over 97% of welfare applicants don't take drugs. |
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From July through October in Florida � the four months when testing took place � 2.6 percent of the state�s cash assistance applicants failed the drug test, or 108 of 4,086, according to the figures from the state obtained by the group. The most common reason was marijuana use. An additional 40 people canceled the tests without taking them.
Because the Florida law requires that applicants who pass the test be reimbursed for the cost, an average of $30, the cost to the state was $118,140. This is more than would have been paid out in benefits to the people who failed the test, Mr. Newton said.
As a result, the testing cost the government an extra $45,780, he said.
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The Neo-cons big plan doesn't work and actually costs the tax payer more money.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0
Last edited by No_hite_pls on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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The real point of drug testing welfare applicants is not to save money. The real point of drug testing welfare applicants is so you can imply that they need to be drug tested to keep on the straight and narrow. It's a moral attack, not a serious economic measure; anyone with the slightest bit of common sense would have known that no serious money was going to be saved here, and if the government were actually worried about saving money, it would just end the war on drugs. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm 50-50ish on this. On a macro-sense, the War on Drugs is a waste 10000X greater than any druggies on welfare and the whole program is another example of stupid moral legislation.
At the same time, I understand the desire that people have to not have their tax dollars go to fund drugs (or gambling or frivolous expenditures).
The logical solution is that rather than welfare, you should have commodity stamps, assisted housing, public transportation cards, clothing credits, health facilities, etc. rather than just getting a check.
Not to sound neo-conny, but I kinda agree with the personal welfare when it comes to livations. Steelrails may be many things, but he is no skinflint when it comes to sharing the booze and buying a sad sack a round at the bar. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
At the same time, I understand the desire that people have to not have their tax dollars go to fund drugs (or gambling or frivolous expenditures).
The logical solution is that rather than welfare, you should have commodity stamps, assisted housing, public transportation cards, clothing credits, health facilities, etc. rather than just getting a check. |
Money is fungible: provide all these things for people instead of "welfare" and you're still going to be indirectly funding any vices they might have, only at much greater administrative expense due to all the micromanaging. Let's be frank: these things aren't rational concerns, they're excuses that let people pretend they care about helping their fellow man while demurring from actually doing so. "Oh, I'd give that hobo money, but he'd just use it on drugs so I won't." Excuse, not reason.
I for one give the hobo the money, and if he wants to use it on a bit of alcohol-induced respite from his problems, that's up to him. Besides, is it really such a terrible thing if a bit of that welfare money gets used to grant a poor man a brief moments respite and enjoyment? I don't think so. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Fox wrote: |
Steelrails wrote: |
At the same time, I understand the desire that people have to not have their tax dollars go to fund drugs (or gambling or frivolous expenditures).
The logical solution is that rather than welfare, you should have commodity stamps, assisted housing, public transportation cards, clothing credits, health facilities, etc. rather than just getting a check. |
Money is fungible: provide all these things for people instead of "welfare" and you're still going to be indirectly funding any vices they might have, only at much greater administrative expense due to all the micromanaging. Let's be frank: these things aren't rational concerns, they're excuses that let people pretend they care about helping their fellow man while demurring from actually doing so. "Oh, I'd give that hobo money, but he'd just use it on drugs so I won't." Excuse, not reason.
I for one give the hobo the money, and if he wants to use it on a bit of alcohol-induced respite from his problems, that's up to him. Besides, is it really such a terrible thing if a bit of that welfare money gets used to grant a poor man a brief moments respite and enjoyment? I don't think so. |
While I agree that food stamps would indirectly fund vice, I think the fact that they have a specified purpose (and possibly regulated use) is a key distinction.
I am personally not opposed to booze or weed stamps- every man or woman deserves to be able to come home to a cold beer. However, I can't begrudge someone not wanting to subsidize someone else's indulgences.
It's a fine line. Ultimately, it is about show, but I can understand some people who have very strong feelings about drug and alcohol consumption not wanting to support people's habits with their tax dollars in such a fashion. Both are indirect funding, but one is certainly a few steps closer than the other. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: |
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This surprised me a little. I wonder how it compares to the State/National average.
It'd be funny if it was actually lower. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:08 am Post subject: |
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slothrop wrote: |
i saw the episode. hilarious. senator claims anyone who wants taxpayer money should have to piss in a cup. he is then asked who pays his salary... answer;the taxpayer. then asked if he would mind pissing in a cup. he says he would if it was law. he is then asked if he would be willing to introduce a bill requiring congressmen to take drug tests. blank stare. no answer. contempt. |
Drug testing for politicians sounds like a great idea. And as their employer, I expect nothing less. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Captain Corea wrote: |
This surprised me a little. I wonder how it compares to the State/National average.
It'd be funny if it was actually lower. |
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/state_profile_-_florida.pdf
(^ Warning, above is .pdf)
FLORIDA DRUG CONTROL UPDATE wrote: |
Approximately 8 percent of Florida residents reported past-month use of illicit drugs; the national average was 8 percent.
. . .
In the most recent Survey, 7.8 percent of Florida residents reported using illicit drugs in the past month. The national average was 8.02 percent. Additionally, 3.5 percent of Florida residents reported using an illicit drug other than marijuana in the past month (the national average was 3.58 percent). |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Do the State average is WAY higher. That's pretty hilarious. I think I'm going to have to make a lame Facebook meme for that.
As to the thing about politicians taking drugs tests for taxpayer money, we could extend that to ALL gov paid jobs.
Not sure why, but I expect the police and armed forces to be a tad higher than the above. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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slothrop wrote: |
i wonder if at some point senior citizens will have to pass a drug test to recieve social security benefits? with my luck they'll pass that law the year i retire.LOL |
Probably not. Drug tests are about implicit moral attacks, something poor people are susceptible to, but the elderly generally are not. The method for dismantling social security is privatization (read: transfer of forced savings to the financial industry). |
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