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Piers Morgan "OWNED" on youtube.
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SMKOREA



Joined: 29 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Piers Morgan "OWNED" on youtube. Reply with quote

I'm not American or British. As a bystander watching the gun debate in America, why do 90 % of comments on youtube say Morgan is wrong/retarded.
A lot of what he says makes complete sense.

Educate me...
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emotionally, many Americans aren't fond of someone who's new to the U.S. and is using a very public forum to argue against a freedom which Americans currently enjoy. Using laws to deny something to all Americans because it's dangerous and we "don't need it" is extremely foreign to American culture.

America has one of the most individualistic cultures on the planet, and a core element of that is rejecting the idea that other people should tell you what you can and cannot do as a law abiding citizen. In the past, Americans might have sought to limit each others' marital options (both on grounds of sex and race) but that has since given way to more freedom. Similarly, Americans were inclined to make laws against marijuana because "it's dangerous and you don't need it", but that is also being dropped in favor of more freedom.

Making new laws limiting what firearms and peripherals law-abiding citizens can own has never been popular and is the polar opposite of the personal-freedom swing the U.S. is currently on.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...But, the real reason is that the vast majority of people who comment on Youtube are young and immature.


http://www.vquence.com.au/2010/04/25/youtube-commenters-demography/
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
Emotionally, many Americans aren't fond of someone who's new to the U.S. and is using a very public forum to argue against a freedom which Americans currently enjoy. Using laws to deny something to all Americans because it's dangerous and we "don't need it" is extremely foreign to American culture.

America has one of the most individualistic cultures on the planet, and a core element of that is rejecting the idea that other people should tell you what you can and cannot do as a law abiding citizen. In the past, Americans might have sought to limit each others' marital options (both on grounds of sex and race) but that has since given way to more freedom. Similarly, Americans were inclined to make laws against marijuana because "it's dangerous and you don't need it", but that is also being dropped in favor of more freedom.

Making new laws limiting what firearms and peripherals law-abiding citizens can own has never been popular and is the polar opposite of the personal-freedom swing the U.S. is currently on.

Well said. This statement is accurate about how many Americans view this "Piers" situation.
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: In my goshiwon cubicle. Seeking moksha.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piers Morgan is learning this the hard way: you can't argue with idiots.

His predecessor Larry King knew that and was a master of 'giving them enough rope' and idiots happily hung themselves on live TV, being non-the-wiser.

In American TV talk shows:
If you challenge with fact, you'll be counter-challenged with a lie. Unless you can fact-check in real time, you lose.
If you 'box-them-in' i.e. ask a direct question, they'll answer with a non-answer. If you double-down, they'll double-down. All you get is a Mexican-stand-off.
If you go scientific on them, they take refuge in the bible. Again you lose.

It's best to dress them up in invisible clothes and parade them.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrewchon wrote:

In American TV talk shows:
If you challenge with fact, you'll be counter-challenged with a lie. Unless you can fact-check in real time, you lose.
If you 'box-them-in' i.e. ask a direct question, they'll answer with a non-answer. If you double-down, they'll double-down. All you get is a Mexican-stand-off.
If you go scientific on them, they take refuge in the bible. Again you lose.


Right, there's simply no way to adequately handle a blatant liar who has been implicitly granted "expert" status by being hosted on a national television program. All you can do is never host liars, but then they get to pretend there's some sort of media conspiracy against them and use that as a source of validation.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
andrewchon wrote:

In American TV talk shows:
If you challenge with fact, you'll be counter-challenged with a lie. Unless you can fact-check in real time, you lose.
If you 'box-them-in' i.e. ask a direct question, they'll answer with a non-answer. If you double-down, they'll double-down. All you get is a Mexican-stand-off.
If you go scientific on them, they take refuge in the bible. Again you lose.


Right, there's simply no way to adequately handle a blatant liar who has been implicitly granted "expert" status by being hosted on a national television program. All you can do is never host liars, but then they get to pretend there's some sort of media conspiracy against them and use that as a source of validation.


I'm not sure Piers Morgan really cares. He's at heart a tabloid journalist, and as such he may see such interviews as a means to an end: bringing attention to his TV show.
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sallymonster



Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Piers Morgan "OWNED" on youtube. Reply with quote

SMKOREA wrote:
I'm not American or British. As a bystander watching the gun debate in America, why do 90 % of comments on youtube say Morgan is wrong/retarded.
A lot of what he says makes complete sense.

Educate me...


Americans don't want their assault weapons taken away because, you know, they might want to use them to overthrow the President or something. Most Americans who are anti- gun control are also anti-Obama. Or they feel that if one type of weapon gets banned, soon all guns will be banned, or something like that.

I'm a bit torn over the gun debate, myself. I do believe a Korea-style ban of all guns would never work in the U.S. and will never happen.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrewchon wrote:
In American TV talk shows:
If you challenge with fact, you'll be counter-challenged with a lie. Unless you can fact-check in real time, you lose.
If you 'box-them-in' i.e. ask a direct question, they'll answer with a non-answer. If you double-down, they'll double-down. All you get is a Mexican-stand-off.
If you go scientific on them, they take refuge in the bible. Again you lose.

I don't think any of that applies to the gun control debate though, does it?
Much of it is based on opinion and emotions.

In this clip for example, Piers' guest argues that maintaining the right to bear arms will provide for the deterrence or combating of tyranny. Regardless of your opinion on that, many Americans believe it to be true. And instead of directly arguing against it (which I believe would be very difficult), Piers tells his guest that he sounds stupid. It makes Piers sound like a liberal version of Rush Limbaugh.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Fox wrote:
andrewchon wrote:

In American TV talk shows:
If you challenge with fact, you'll be counter-challenged with a lie. Unless you can fact-check in real time, you lose.
If you 'box-them-in' i.e. ask a direct question, they'll answer with a non-answer. If you double-down, they'll double-down. All you get is a Mexican-stand-off.
If you go scientific on them, they take refuge in the bible. Again you lose.


Right, there's simply no way to adequately handle a blatant liar who has been implicitly granted "expert" status by being hosted on a national television program. All you can do is never host liars, but then they get to pretend there's some sort of media conspiracy against them and use that as a source of validation.


I'm not sure Piers Morgan really cares. He's at heart a tabloid journalist, and as such he may see such interviews as a means to an end: bringing attention to his TV show.


Maybe. I had no idea who Piers Morgan actually was before gun advocates on this website started ranting about him, because I generally do not watch television.
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgan is a hack and from what I gather wasn't very well liked in England, either.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
Morgan is a hack and from what I gather wasn't very well liked in England, either.


Even hacks are right sometimes.
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Quack Addict



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
Morgan is a hack and from what I gather wasn't very well liked in England, either.


Even hacks are right sometimes.


Morgan isn't at all right on this topic. It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue.

He asks why people want an AR-15 with 100 round clip? The answer...because they think it's cool! Good enough.

Why does someone need a car that goes 180mph...the speed limit is 75 on the highway? The answer...because they think its cool! Good enough.

Morgan isn't into guns. They scare him. Good for him. Don't buy one. But don't tell people who use them correctly they can't have them because others choose to use them in a bad way.

This is the problem with the gubberment acting like a nanny. Knee jerk liberals trying to take away the rights of law abiding citizens. Not cool.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quack Addict wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
Morgan is a hack and from what I gather wasn't very well liked in England, either.


Even hacks are right sometimes.


Morgan isn't at all right on this topic. It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue.

He asks why people want an AR-15 with 100 round clip? The answer...because they think it's cool! Good enough.


That's over simplistic. Take the guns out of the equation and you wouldn't have had massacres.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Quack Addict wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
Morgan is a hack and from what I gather wasn't very well liked in England, either.


Even hacks are right sometimes.


Morgan isn't at all right on this topic. It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue.

He asks why people want an AR-15 with 100 round clip? The answer...because they think it's cool! Good enough.


That's over simplistic. Take the guns out of the equation and you wouldn't have had massacres.


*cough cough* daegu subway fire *cough cough*

He's trying to get ratings, and I guess it's working.
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