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My Korean Court Case
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Quote:
Referring to Korean news IS citing Koreans


Ha Ha Ha Ha...Thanks for the laugh It isn't but it sure was funny.

Quote:
Regarding your idea that westerners would not come here due to wider reports of social injustice. Well, economics can disprove that easily.


You think so?? You would ocme here knowing that you will be screwed out of your hard earned pay by anonymous Koreans who make up criminal charges against you?

Your logic fails. The crash of the korean won in the 90s would disprove that. Westerners fled in droves when their salaries lost a lot of value.

I think you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing and have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. I am about done myself as I think I made my point and supported it as well.

Ok, once more. Your perception of your own writing is as poor as your perception of the issue. Exactly how is a poll, surveyed of Koreans by Koreans, published in Korean language, in a Korean newspaper, not citing Koreans? How is a neighborhood forum, resonating the same sentiments found in such articles, not citing Koreans?

And FYI, your reference to the 90s proves my point. Yes, keep laughing. It will distract you from the fact that you're arguing with yourself.
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="crescent"]
kinship wrote:
Quote:
Referring to Korean news IS citing Koreans


Ha Ha Ha Ha...Thanks for the laugh It isn't but it sure was funny.

You think so?? You would ocme here knowing that you will be screwed out of your hard earned pay by anonymous Koreans who make up criminal charges against you?

Ok, once more. Your perception of your own writing is as poor as your perception of the issue. Exactly how is a poll, surveyed of Koreans by Koreans, published in Korean language, in a Korean newspaper, not citing Koreans? How is a neighborhood forum, resonating the same sentiments found in such articles, not citing Koreans?

And FYI, your reference to the 90s proves my point. Yes, keep laughing. It will distract you from the fact that you're arguing with yourself.


Still funny as you do not know what a proper citation is. Plus I noticed you avoided answering my point so there is no point in responding to you after this.

The bad thing about discussions is that those who can't support their point of view ignore points made by those who can. You fall into the former category not the latter.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans have no conscience. They don't have a culture of 2000 years of Judeao - Christian guilt. But, what they do have is shame. When the western media (LA Times, CBC news - Canada, and others) started picking up on it, hate groups like anti - English spectrum went further underground. All of you who have experienced these things, please document and tell your stories well. Email, phone, and otherwise contact these media outlets and tell them of your stories. Perhaps, a hard hitting journalist can compile all these stories. The more this gets out in the open and "shame" is felt, the more likely Korean policy makers will crack down on this bias. Don't just complain about it here. But all of you choose a journalist and bombard them with personal accounts and present all documentation you can. This includes, researching here and PM'ing people whose stories you've read. Otherwise, you're just here preaching to the converted.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/11/entertainment/la-ca-culture-korea-20110911

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/31/world/la-fg-korea-english31-2010jan31

http://rokdrop.com/2012/12/03/psys-anti-american-past-uncovered/

http://international.ohmynews.com/2012/08/17/south-korea-accused-of-racism-in-the-u-n-yet-not-reported-in-korean-news/

https://sites.google.com/site/racisminsouthkorea/

http://askakorean.blogspot.kr/2012/02/outer-edges-of-koreas-racism-and.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Korea

...and it goes on and on....
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091106055419AAgu8bH

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/world/asia/02race.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2009/09/achievements-of-anti-english-spectrum.html


Last edited by Weigookin74 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Weigookin74"]Koreans have no conscience. They don't have a culture of 2000 years of Judeao - Christian guilt. But, what they do have is shame. When the western media (LA Times, CBC news - Canada, and others) started picking up on it, hate groups like anti - English spectrum went further underground. All of you who have experienced these things, please document and tell your stories well. Email, phone, and otherwise contact these media outlets and tell them of your stories. Perhaps, a hard hitting journalist can compile all these stories. The more this gets out in the open and "shame" is felt, the more likely Korean policy makers will crack down on this bias. Don't just complain about it here. But all of you choose a journalist and bombard them with personal accounts and present all documentation you can. This includes, researching here and PM'ing people whose stories you've read. Otherwise, you're just here preaching to the converted.[/quote]

Haha, you should know that you (and some other posters on dave's esl board) have a lot of issues and are probably dumber than the hate groups you mentioned above because you obviously have so much hate in you. I feel sorry for your parents if they're still alive and your students if you still teach. Shame on you.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moondoggy wrote:
[quote="Weigookin74"]Koreans have no conscience. They don't have a culture of 2000 years of Judeao - Christian guilt. But, what they do have is shame. When the western media (LA Times, CBC news - Canada, and others) started picking up on it, hate groups like anti - English spectrum went further underground. All of you who have experienced these things, please document and tell your stories well. Email, phone, and otherwise contact these media outlets and tell them of your stories. Perhaps, a hard hitting journalist can compile all these stories. The more this gets out in the open and "shame" is felt, the more likely Korean policy makers will crack down on this bias. Don't just complain about it here. But all of you choose a journalist and bombard them with personal accounts and present all documentation you can. This includes, researching here and PM'ing people whose stories you've read. Otherwise, you're just here preaching to the converted.


Haha, you should know that you (and some other posters on dave's esl board) have a lot of issues and are probably dumber than the hate groups you mentioned above because you obviously have so much hate in you. I feel sorry for your parents if they're still alive and your students if you still teach. Shame on you.[/quote]

I don't have any issues. I brought specific documented cases of racism without merely going on a rant. If anyone who has been a victim here wants to do something about, shame them. If not, then do nothing. As for you moon doggy style, I don't recall asking your opinion, so p!$$ 0ff.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kinship"]
Quote:

Why let them lie and embellish? That does more damage especially to newbies who do not have a clue about this country. You may think it is harmless but in reality it isn't.


This could happen in any country, and any potential traveler or worker heading to Korea knows that. The way you are handling the situation isn't going to improve the image of Korea though. It is just going to give more credibility to the people who say Korea has a lot of problems underneath the surface the locals lie about. I think this is hard for you to understand.

There are plenty of horror stories out there for the newbies to read about. Most of them are true too. I am glad I did the proper research before I came here so I wasn't caught off guard by some of the things that happen. One of the first things they tell you when you arrive is that your vacation time isn't really vacation time...haha what?! But that is just normal and accepted here. I think it is a little strange you have a problem with people telling the OP what he is legally entitled to in this situation. Even if he is lying, someone may need help with this type of thing down the road.

I would recommend to the OP to NEVER MEET YOU IN PERSON though, you strike me as a guy that might cause even more problems for him regardless of whether he is telling the truth or not. I could be wrong though.

Oh yeah, and the West has racism too, we get it man. We get it.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Still funny as you do not know what a proper citation is. Plus I noticed you avoided answering my point so there is no point in responding to you after this.

The bad thing about discussions is that those who can't support their point of view ignore points made by those who can. You fall into the former category not the latter.

cite (st)
tr.v. cit·ed, cit·ing, cites
1. To quote as an authority or example.
2. To mention or bring forward as support, illustration, or proof:

I honestly did not see ANY point you made worth answering, other than the points I addressed. You're running in circles and contradicting yourself now. What point do feel needs answering? Kreist, it's bad enough you don't understand basic economics, and now you feel you have a valid point?
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
cite (st)
tr.v. cit·ed, cit·ing, cites
1. To quote as an authority or example.
2. To mention or bring forward as support, illustration, or proof:


Please stop, you are just embarrassing yourself. You did not do what you think you did...

Quote:
I honestly did not see ANY point you made worth answering, other than the points I addressed. You're running in circles and contradicting yourself now. What point do feel needs answering? Kreist, it's bad enough you don't understand basic economics, and now you feel you have a valid point


Then maybe you will bow out and let someone else respond.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah Really? you just failed to understand basic economics and now you're telling me what I meant? Just because you have your own assumptions does not make you right.
If you think you have a valid point then lets hear it. Someone else would address it if there was one. I'm not stopping them.
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think this is hard for you to understand.


No, I think it is hard for you to understand that this stuff you are targeting is not as widespread as you think.

Quote:
One of the first things they tell you when you arrive is that your vacation time isn't really vacation time.


This is not even close to what we are talking about and probably the 'horror stories' you allude to fall into the same category. I didn't care when I first came here about my vacation time. I learned how things worked and adapted, that is not hard to do and I didn't cause grief for the owners.

It helped that my first hagwon owners were very generous and paid us for unused vacation days. They also paid us extra in those months that had more than 20 'school' days. This meant that I made more than my contracted salary for every month except February.

Quote:
I think it is a little strange you have a problem with people telling the OP what he is legally entitled to in this situation


They are not entitled to anything as the people 'counseling' them are not Korean lawyers and do not know Korean law.

Quote:
I would recommend to the OP to NEVER MEET YOU IN PERSON though, you strike me as a guy that might cause even more problems for him regardless of whether he is telling the truth or not. I could be wrong though.


Why, I do not cause anyone problems and I think you have changed the topic from what I have said.

Quote:
Oh yeah, and the West has racism too, we get it man. We get it.


But you do not get it. Even with the west having racism that doesn't give anyone permission to make attacks against another nation and one that is paying their salaries. Ever hear the old saying about 'biting the hand that feeds you'?
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Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Versions vary over what started the fight last month. One bystander reported that the 24-year-old teacher had been talking to a Korean female companion when confronted by the elderly man, who demanded to know why the woman was with a black man. Others say the American was speaking too loudly.

"I felt offended when the man in the seat said 'Shut up,'" the teacher later told police. "And while I couldn't understand the Korean that followed, I felt he was disparaging black people."


http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/11/entertainment/la-ca-culture-korea-20110911


Too true, I often have trouble hearing my American friends - they seem to speak so meekly and softly.

It's like hearing a mouse fart into a velvet glove!

Come on Americans please speak more loudly and confidently in public!

As for this post Rolling Eyes

I just hope the OP doesn’t go back to his own home country and hold a grudge against ALL Koreans.....If you do you could kinda do what MD does in the movie 'Falling Down' Razz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2YRMixW9u8 - Great movie too! Cool

I always love it here on Dave's when the dictionary gets dusted off!

At least your debating classes weren’t put to waste, your professors would be proud of you!


Last edited by Lucas on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Quote:
I think this is hard for you to understand.


No, I think it is hard for you to understand that this stuff you are targeting is not as widespread as you think.

Quote:
One of the first things they tell you when you arrive is that your vacation time isn't really vacation time.


This is not even close to what we are talking about and probably the 'horror stories' you allude to fallinto the same category. I didn't care when I first came here about my vacation time. I learned how things worked and adapted, that is not hard to do and I didn't cause grief for the owners.

It helped that my first hagwon owners were very generous and paid us for unused vacation days. They also paid us extra in those months that had more than 20 'school' days. This meant that I made more than my contracted salary for every month except February.

Quote:
I think it is a little strange you have a problem with people telling the OP what he is legally entitled to in this situation


They are not entitled to anything as the people 'counseling' them are not Korean lawyers and do not know Korean law.

Quote:
I would recommend to the OP to NEVER MEET YOU IN PERSON though, you strike me as a guy that might cause even more problems for him regardless of whether he is telling the truth or not. I could be wrong though.


Why, I do not cause anyone problems and I think you have changed the topic from what I have said.

Quote:
Oh yeah, and the West has racism too, we get it man. We get it.


But you do not get it. Even with the west havingracism that doesn't give anyone permission to make attacks against another nation and one that is paying their salaries. Every hear the old saying about 'biting the hand that feeds you'?


I am glad that when people got upset about working conditions in the West, they decided to start unions instead of listening to an idea like that.

But let's say we apply your faulty logic anyways. You do realize that Korea makes a lot of money from doing business with America, right? Further, the US military is here just in case North Korea were to ever do something crazy. So, if it ever were to come to widespread attention in the US about cases such as this, I wonder who would be perceived to be doing the biting.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Quote:
I think this is hard for you to understand.


No, I think it is hard for you to understand that this stuff you are targeting is not as widespread as you think.

Quote:
One of the first things they tell you when you arrive is that your vacation time isn't really vacation time.


This is not even close to what we are talking about and probably the 'horror stories' you allude to fall into the same category. I didn't care when I first came here about my vacation time. I learned how things worked and adapted, that is not hard to do and I didn't cause grief for the owners.

It helped that my first hagwon owners were very generous and paid us for unused vacation days. They also paid us extra in those months that had more than 20 'school' days. This meant that I made more than my contracted salary for every month except February.

Quote:
I think it is a little strange you have a problem with people telling the OP what he is legally entitled to in this situation


They are not entitled to anything as the people 'counseling' them are not Korean lawyers and do not know Korean law.

Quote:
I would recommend to the OP to NEVER MEET YOU IN PERSON though, you strike me as a guy that might cause even more problems for him regardless of whether he is telling the truth or not. I could be wrong though.


Why, I do not cause anyone problems and I think you have changed the topic from what I have said.

Quote:
Oh yeah, and the West has racism too, we get it man. We get it.


But you do not get it. Even with the west having racism that doesn't give anyone permission to make attacks against another nation and one that is paying their salaries. Ever hear the old saying about 'biting the hand that feeds you'?


I never said it was widespread. In fact, if this did happen I think it was probably a case of the OP being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think Korea is a safe country but I think that a scenario like this possible anywhere. Your argument gives the impression that there are attempts to conceal this type of thing when it happens though.

How do you know they aren't even close to what we are talking about? And whether you were compensated or not the contract still stated "vacation days", that is not what you got. So right there you have a contract that could be considered misleading by some foreigners that come here. Why not just call them "camp days"? Cool that you got a nice hakwon owner, maybe you should show more consideration for the people that didn't though. With the exception of one location, I've always had a good work atmosphere here, but that one location was awful. I've learned to be more understanding of people that haven't been given a chance here.

You don't know what the qualifications of the people counseling them are. This is an internet forum, OP can use the advice at his own risk. What do you mean by "not entitled"? Should he be banned for asking for advice here or something? He is getting it, so apparently he is entitled to it.

Nobody needs permission to talk smack about another country. OP is frustrated and hates Korea now. He is going to go home and talk about how he hates Korea. You aren't helping build any bridges here. Like I said, you just don't get it.

Anyway, where is the evidence that he has embellished his story and a liar?

And it's pretty self evident why I wouldn't recommend the OP meet you in person. Wait no it's not. Don't worry about why I told him that.
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