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My Korean Court Case
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The incidents to which you refer are mostly in the past in another country. They have absolutely nothing to do with the issues the OP in this thread is facing in Korea.


Clearly you either missed the point by accident or on purpose which tells me that discussing anything with you is a waste of time.

Suffice it to say that if you are so blockheaded that you cannot see past your nose and be able to learn from your experiences here then you really do not have the right to call yourself a teacher or be in any classroom.

Planting seeds of hatred, distrust, making accusations, altering one's story, calling other people a liar without evidence is not part of being a good teacher and does nothing to solve any problem in this country but simply makes them worse.

Go back and re-read my posts and see if you can see the points I made and how they should be applied. Most people who come here are not long-termers and they can use their experiences in their own country positively if they so choose instead of spreading hatred that affects innocent Korean people.
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NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinship, what was your name on Dave's before this one? You're clearly a long termer, so didn't start here in Jan 2013.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kinship"]
Quote:

Look at the CRCs for Americans. It used to be a simple state check but when people started advising others to change states and come here with hidden criminal records, the Koreans got wind of it and made it an FBI check.

Westerns are not known for their honesty or for playing by the rules even though many are innocent of such activities. you can blame the apostile requirement upon the many westerners who forged or had fake degrees and CRCs created.



I won't blame the apostile requirement on westerners. I will blame it on whoever the immigration official was that didn't consult the proper authorities on background checks in the USA. Most of those people wouldn't have been hired in the USA too, it was a faulty application process. Criminals always take advantages of flaws in the system like that. Don't blame the West for a Korean policy.

You aren't stopping the "haters", you are just giving more credibility to the people that hate Korea by being so biased.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Clearly you either missed the point by accident or on purpose which tells me that discussing anything with you is a waste of time.


Good grief, you're thicker than a neutron star. You're wasting your effort because you're incredibly mistaken.

Look, it's rather simple. It doesn't matter at all, not one whit, how much minorities suffered in another country nor when they suffered in another country. It has no bearing, it is not connected with, the OP's situation in Korea.

Quote:
Suffice it to say that if you are so blockheaded that you cannot see past your nose and be able to learn from your experiences here then you really do not have the right to call yourself a teacher or be in any classroom.

Planting seeds of hatred, distrust, making accusations, altering one's story, calling other people a liar without evidence is not part of being a good teacher and does nothing to solve any problem in this country but simply makes them worse.


Well, I've done none of that. And I've doubts about the OP's "planting seeds of hatred, distrust," etc.

Quote:
Go back and re-read my posts and see if you can see the points I made and how they should be applied. Most people who come here are not long-termers and they can use their experiences in their own country positively if they so choose instead of spreading hatred that affects innocent Korean people.


Once again: The OP's experience in his home country has nothing to do with his experience of being assaulted by some jackass in Korea.

NYC gal has a very good question for you. I think she might think you're Komerican. I don't. I think you're Thiessen. But, hey, maybe we think what we think because you "planted seeds of distrust." Both Komerican and Thiessen are well-versed in the art of blaming the victim.

By the way, an innocent Korean person does not slug someone for pissing on the street, even if the OP's friend did, in fact, piss in said street. An innocent Korean person, or for that matter, an innocent person of any nationality in Korea, would either ignore the offense or report it to the police providing this nifty little thing called evidence. A criminal Korean person, on the other hand, assaults someone.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
. I have their publicly published words


As mentioned inconsistencies in a person's story who was in a fight and/or drunk do not mean that the person wasn't the victim of a crime.

Basic Criminal Investigation and logic 101.

Quote:
the history of this website


What does the history of this website have to do with the facts of the case?

Are you going to submit the history of Dave's ESL as evidence in a court of law?

Quote:
the myriad of cases where westerners altered their version of events later exposed to be false and much more


Once again, logic 101- Just because someone(s) in the past have made up stories does not mean that this incident is made up.

You have zero evidence.

Quote:
Westerns are not known for their honesty


You, and I, don't appreciate it when people speak about Koreans in generalities and negatively stereotype them. You believe that individual Koreans who do something bad should be regarded as individuals.

The same should apply to westerners and NETs, but you aren't doing that to the OP. You are generalizing and stereotyping. You are using past incidents to which he has no connection and fall outside the norm, to prejudge the facts of his case. You sir, are just as bad as the people you claim to despise.
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
what was your name on Dave's before this one? You're clearly a long termer, so didn't start here in Jan 2013.


You may be surprised to know that there are some of us who only read the forum for news about changes in regulations etc.
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you're thicker than a neutron star. You're wasting your effort because you're incredibly mistaken.


I am not mistaken and people like you just fan the problem making it bigger instead of taking steps to solve them.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Westerns are not known for their honesty or for playing by the rules even though many are innocent of such activities.

Oh really? So it's ok for you to generalize is it? Asians, on the other hand ARE known for their honesty? LOL! Oh, you are one confused apologist and as hypocritical as they come.

The OP has inconsistent recounts? So do rape victims.

I understand you are compelled to spend all this time and effort, tearing things apart and analyzing them for the sake of 'balance'. But when even the most ardent of apologists here find fault with your thought process (read lack of), then it should become clear that you don't have the experience or knowledge you think you do to make the judgments you are making.

Keep it coming though, breakfast has never been so entertaining!
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Once again, logic 101- Just because someone(s) in the past have made up stories does not mean that this incident is made up.

You have zero evidence.


I do not think I have seen so many people work so hard to avoid points made. Your dismissal of my evidence and support just shows you can't defend your position or are unwilling to listen to contrary opinions. This is after all a discussion forum not a forum for rubber stamping OPs.

The fact that you and so many are spending so much effort in trying to ignore my points tells me a lot about the people here. Just because you do not think I do not evidence doesn't mean I do not have evidence.

The message is quite clear people like the Op and those who support them will not make things better for anyone and if they are upset about what has transpired concerning their sojourn here then they need to gain some perspective by what has happened to others who were the minority in western lands.

All you are doing is enabling these people and not helping matters. We all get the message, bad things happen but guess what that doesn't mean that a few bad Koreans spoil it for the 50,000,000 innocent ones.

Quote:
The same should apply to westerners and NETs, but you aren't doing that to the OP


Let me turn this back around on you. You and others do not want a western country condemned because of a few racist law enforcement officials so don't do it to Korea. The Korean legal system is not wrong because a few westerners claim they were discriminated against and given unjust treatment.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
[ Just because you do not think I do not evidence doesn't mean I do not have evidence.

Just because you think you have evidence doesn't mean you have it. Why does your validity trump others?

Quote:
All you are doing is enabling these people and not helping matters. We all get the message, bad things happen but guess what that doesn't mean that a few bad Koreans spoil it for the 50,000,000 innocent ones.

Westerners are known for their dishonesty, but there are only a few bad Koreans?

Yes, keep going. More please.
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NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Quote:
what was your name on Dave's before this one? You're clearly a long termer, so didn't start here in Jan 2013.


You may be surprised to know that there are some of us who only read the forum for news about changes in regulations etc.


So what changed your mind, then socky mc sockerton?
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a lawyer friend once told me is that judges are appointed at a very young age right out of law school. Then they might become prosecutors or lawyers at an older age to make money. So, a prosecutor who is the judge's senior tells him what to believe in most cases. If it's a smaller town, the Koreans are all buddies and a foriegner gets screwed. As I previously said, if more of these wronged foriegners aggressively report this to the western media when they home and protest outside the Korean embassies and consulates eventually this will cause "shame" and bring about a change in Korea.

I've never had legal problems like many other westerners, but lets not kid ourselves, things can and do happen. Maybe we are fault and maybe we are not. How many foriegners have been jumped did nothing and got punishment against the Korean individuals? I have read stuff here over the years.

On the surface, this country has become a friendlier place over the past 2 to 3 years. I am neither a Korea hater nor am I a Korean apologist. There have been some good Korean folks I have met over the years. But there are still some real xenophobic [email protected][email protected]$ here too.

When the western media started picking up the racism and hate such as from anti english spectrum in 2009 and 2010, much of the animosity disappeared. Again, a sense of "shame". When foriegners united after the racist MBC video, not many others ran videos after that. (Prior to 2010, the Korean media channels would compete with each other to see who make up the most smut about us.)

My first 2 or 3 years here very few Korean people would say hello or even come near me. It was this distance factor. All of you here for a few or several years know what I mean. Around 2010ish, the Korean government had started advertisements because of G20 summits to say hello to foriegners, not to spit everywhere, and not to cut in front of line.

So, as I've said, people are more polite nowadays. The country does seem to be getting better but there are still issues and instances. I remember about a year ago going to this health club. The owner was a friendly guy and spoke English well. All was fine and dandy until a yoga instructor there started making eyes at me and I started chatting to her. The owner sure changed on the snap of a dime. (No she wasn't his girlfriend.) So, beneath the surface, the old tensions remain. That said, I've had some teachers in school try to set me up with women. During my first couple of years in schools, it was C blocking non stop.

People here (waygooks) shouldn't be so naive. Neither should they think the walls are crawling in on them. But, be aware of your surroundings and be prepared to use shame (either here or back at home.) if the Koreans organize around you. (They are very good at this type of collective organization more than you think. It's why foriegners mostly always lose.)

Here people that seem to scream the loudest get their own way. Whereas in the west, they can get hit with restraining orders. If the cards are stacked against you and you have nothing to lose, reach into their bag of tricks and go down fighting. But, otherwise, enjoy your time here and hope for the best.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
Quote:
Once again, logic 101- Just because someone(s) in the past have made up stories does not mean that this incident is made up.

You have zero evidence.


I do not think I have seen so many people work so hard to avoid points made. Your dismissal of my evidence and support just shows you can't defend your position or are unwilling to listen to contrary opinions. This is after all a discussion forum not a forum for rubber stamping OPs.

The fact that you and so many are spending so much effort in trying to ignore my points tells me a lot about the people here. Just because you do not think I do not evidence doesn't mean I do not have evidence.

The message is quite clear people like the Op and those who support them will not make things better for anyone and if they are upset about what has transpired concerning their sojourn here then they need to gain some perspective by what has happened to others who were the minority in western lands.

All you are doing is enabling these people and not helping matters. We all get the message, bad things happen but guess what that doesn't mean that a few bad Koreans spoil it for the 50,000,000 innocent ones.

Quote:
The same should apply to westerners and NETs, but you aren't doing that to the OP


Let me turn this back around on you. You and others do not want a western country condemned because of a few racist law enforcement officials so don't do it to Korea. The Korean legal system is not wrong because a few westerners claim they were discriminated against and given unjust treatment.


Let more Koreans prove this by standing against unjust acts committed by their fellow countrymen. It will go a long way to further improving their image abroad.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
The Korean legal system is not wrong because a few westerners claim they were discriminated against and given unjust treatment.

You complain about others dismissing your 'points', but you dismiss the most important one of all. Koreans also think the justice system is extremely corrupt, unfair, and discriminatory.
How one can reside in a country for more than a year and not know this is unfathomable.
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
Good grief, you're thicker than a neutron star. You're wasting your effort because you're incredibly mistaken.


This means he is either the theoretical quark star or a black hole singularity in which case we are screwed. Hahaha.
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