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My Korean Court Case
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you are not a native speaker Kinship, since you do not know the meaning of the word evidence. Good look with your Starcraft game.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your dismissal of my evidence and support just shows you can't defend your position


I haven't dismissed your evidence because you had no evidence to present.

You have conjecture and theory. Those are opinions, not facts.

You have brought zero facts to the case.

Do you have any A) Eyewitness testimony. B) Physical evidence.

You have neither, so you have nothing to contradict the OP's story. You can question his version of the facts, but that is not evidence. That is doubt.

Before you tell us that you have evidence, look up the definition of evidence first.

Quote:
their sojourn here then they need to gain some perspective by what has happened to others who were the minority in western lands.


Fine make that point. Make that point in this thread.

But that has nothing to do with the facts of the OPs case. It does not prove or disprove the circumstances regarding the fracas.

Quote:
You and others do not want a western country condemned because of a few racist law enforcement officials so don't do it to Korea.


I for one, have not commented at all on the corruption of the justice system.

My sole issue in this is that you are calling the OP a liar, and claiming you have "evidence" but you have no evidence, and you don't have any proof the OP is lying.

Le sigh- I will give you one last chance-
LAY OUT YOUR EVIDENCE THAT CONTRADICTS THE OP'S STORY. What proof do you have that his version of events is untrue?
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not going to get into a 'yes I did' 'no you didn't' debate/argument. If you do not accept what I have presented then that is up to you. My opinion hasn't changed and the OP and his friend are just wrong in their reaction to how they perceived they were treated.

They have no justification to trash or condemn Korean affairs as they were not privy to all the proceedings that took place and cannot read Korean minds. This goes for all those who supports the OP.

I am still waiting for an explanation how the restaurant guy had his nose 'magically' broken but I won't hold my breathe. The issue really is, the OP and those who support them just lowered themselves to the level the accuse the Koreans of going to. I have litle desire to continue this discussion as you all cannot open your minds to contradictory points made.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
This goes for all those who supports the OP.

This is yet another minor, but telling error which riddles kinship's posts. Methinks he is not a native English speaker.
Or it's the sock of Komerican.

Quote:
I have litle desire to continue this discussion as you all cannot open your minds to contradictory points made.

Yes, the problem is not yours... condemn everyone else. Dishonest westerners.
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Benjamino



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Location: Samcheonpo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't bothered reading this thread for days but can I just say that I neither hate Korea, Koreans or am prejudiced against them as somebody (no names ) mentioned.

Their legal system seems far from perfect as highlighted to this day when I've STILL not received any contact verbally or written about the case from the prosecutor.

I don't understand how they can give somebody a fine and not tell them why or even that they've been given a fine. I wasn't even told I was charged with any offence.

I'd quite happily stay in Korea and take another job but as soon as my situation is explained then any potential job offer is withdrawn.


Ok I admit, I'm angry with the Korean in my case who has lied and did assault my friend. I'm also annoyed by the witnesses who he brought the the cop shop who said I was p***ing in the street lied too. One of them was a very pretty Korean lady and the very idea I'd whip out the old chap and urinate in front of her is ridiculous.

Apart from that I'm slightly perplexed that I'm two million out of pocket and 27 days from being homeless and jobless.


NB. Today I will head to the Police Station for a Police Check and see if I have a criminal record. Some people say yes, some no.

I will report back.
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McQwaid



Joined: 18 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m not sure how anyone can deny that something a little intense is going on for Western ESL teachers in Korea. I lived there before, and over the years, have since moved onto three other Asian “ESL” countries. Believe me; something intense and uncomfortable was going on in Korea much stronger than my other Asian country experiences. That something could be described as xenophobia and racism. Sure, the other Asian places had this too, but not to the same degree as Korea.

That is not to say that Koreans somehow have an innate predisposition towards racism – no way. I have many Korean relations abroad that show no such thing. But on Korean soil something different occurs.

For example, if I spit on the ground in a Korea, and if observed by a Korean, well, often that would be seen as spitting on Korea. Or as in this threads case, if I was seen urinating on the ground in Korea, well, it is very likely that is seen as pissing on Korea. A Korean observed by a Korean peeing outside is just a dude having a leak, but a white skinned Westerner being observed peeing outside by a Korean(s) is a drunken disrespectful waygook pissing on Korea. It must be stopped! No other old country bloodline region I have lived in would go to this form of observation like I have seen in Korea IMO. My international Korean relations will even attest to this. The ‘others’ and the ‘thems’ are uniquely intense in Korea. I’m not surprised the OP and his buddy had problems with being observed ( or perceived to be ) urinating outside. They were pissing on Korea from the Korean observer’s point of view - hence, the apparent smackdown. I think all the cops and judges and the like are also frozen with the mindset that you pissed on "their" country. Even if you didn't do it, good luck with changing that perception. As we already know, one urinating outside is a very conceivable possibility in Korea.

My take is: it is what it is – understand it and make it work for you in the future.

My travels say tiptoe and try to be especially polite in these old bloodline countries, most importantly, in public. Everything we do is observed with intense hyperbole on the impoliteness scale. If that makes you uncomfortable, leave Korea like I did and find another great Asian ESL gig in a country, with the same racism dynamics mind you, but just less intense. It was too strong for me in Korea. I was in a constant state of apologetical ethnic existence. I was uncomfortable tiptoeing aound to seem polite all the time. So I left.

Just my two baht for the 2 fellas considerations and prospects for future plans. Best of luck for the next few hard weeks ahead. You’ll look back at this a year from now with something positive though.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
They have no justification to trash or condemn Korean affairs as they were not privy to all the proceedings that took place and cannot read Korean minds..


And you were, and you can?

You have no more than the OP. In fact you have less. At least the OP was a party to the whole case. You have nothing to guide you one way or the other on what happened that night. You were not a witness, have zero evidence, and have no access to any court or police documents.

Quote:
I am still waiting for an explanation how the restaurant guy had his nose 'magically' broken


It was a fracas. Guy could have slipped and fallen, been accidentally struck or it might not be broken at all or it might have been smashed by the OP either in aggression or in self-defense. Who knows? The point is that you certainly don't. You have nothing to support or go against what the OP said, just your own inherent bias.

All we want from you is factual evidence that supports your claim that the OP was in the wrong. Put up your evidence or pipe down.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:
This means he is either the theoretical quark star or a black hole singularity in which case we are screwed. Hahaha.


It's the latter, and you all are getting sucked right in. Wink
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
Yes, the problem is not yours... condemn everyone else. Dishonest westerners.


No, no. You obviously misread his postings in this thread. He didn't say Westerners. He said Westerns. And he's right. Westerns are not the most honest films made, after all.
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Benjamino



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Location: Samcheonpo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, as Kinship pointed out waaaaay earlier I don't have a criminal record and now I've got in in black and white to prove it. He is right in that instance, fair play to the lad.

Strange turn of events as I paid a big fine given to me by a Korean court but it doesn't constitute a criminal record. I can't even begin to understand the logic of the Korean legal system but I am grateful in this instance.

So, I was given a 30 days notice letter from school telling my that under article 17 of my contract ' breaking the laws of Korea' I breached the contract.

However, I now have a sheet of paper from the police that says there is no record of me ever having broken the laws of Korea.

I am thinking labor board and the OP agrees with me.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinship wrote:
I am not mistaken and people like you just fan the problem making it bigger instead of taking steps to solve them.


You're mistaken in your idea that racial conflict in a different country has anything at all to do with a person, not of the predominant race in Korea, being attacked.

And what do you mean by people like me? I'm very into Logic, Fact, Evidence, Reason, and Not Making Asinine Comments. YMMV, but hey that's the cool thing about the world: not everyone's on the same ride, so to speak. Feel free to keep flailing and embarrassing yourself. It's a free world on the Internet.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benjamino wrote:
So, I was given a 30 days notice letter from school telling my that under article 17 of my contract ' breaking the laws of Korea' I breached the contract.

However, I now have a sheet of paper from the police that says there is no record of me ever having broken the laws of Korea.

I am thinking labor board and the OP agrees with me.


All the various BS in the thread aside, that's interesting news. Give it a crack, couldn't hurt.
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joelove



Joined: 12 May 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's pretty boring in Korea. I'd post 20 times a day if I was bored enough. But I have this busy life of sleeping and using the toilet.
I like how people have opinions. It's interesting. Like, someone has an opinion and someone else has an opinion too. Awesome. But your opinion is not the same as mine. Incredible. I don't like your opinion because it is not the same as my opinion. Good. But, remember my opinion is important. Ah, yes, so it is. I forgot. I forgot that mine came out of my ass. But yours came from your mouth. Nice.
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, I now have a sheet of paper from the police that says there is no record of me ever having broken the laws of Korea.


It may not have made it through the process yet.

Quote:
I am thinking labor board


Why? They haven't done anything wrong yet. Their information is based upon what has been told them by you and others. They are simply following the contract. The better step would be to talk to your co-teacher and go through the chain of command before going to the labor board.

This won't take long and may spare you some embarrassment.
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kinship



Joined: 24 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You're mistaken in your idea that racial conflict in a different country has anything at all to do with a person, not of the predominant race in Korea, being attacked


No nor am I mistaken that you missed the point. I put it down to yours and other people's bias and lack of objectivity.
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