Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Korean Air's safety record - 5th worst in the world.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Korean Air's safety record - 5th worst in the world. Reply with quote

I rememember when I first visited Korea many moons ago, Korean Air had perhaps the world's worst safety record. It's planes were crashing all over the place. It was right up there with Air China for crashes. Other airlines even stopped their route sharing arrangement wirh Korean Air because their passengers safety could not be guaranteed. Admittedly, its safety record has improved significantly over the past decade. But a recent study of all airlines safety record since 1983 still places its safety record at #5. That is, only four other airlines have worse overall safety records.

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-10-most-dangerous-airlines-171800816.html

Having said that, at least they have attractive flight attendants. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrote:
The ratings take into account the number and deadliness of the hull losses (destroyed airplanes) they have suffered in the past 30 years, how they have fared more recently, and how many flights they have flown without incident.

The results do not take into account the cause of the hull losses, or whether the airline is at fault, so they are not a perfect measure of how safely an airline behaves.


Talk about a headline for sensationalism.

*Planes shot down (1983 KAL flight from New York to Seoul being the biggest).
Note: The last fatal passenger incident was the Korean Air Flight 801 crash in 1997.

wrote:
Korean Air had many fatal accidents between 1970 and 1999, during which time it wrote off 16 aircraft in serious incidents and accidents with the loss of 700 lives. Since then, safety has greatly improved, and the airline ranks among the best in the 21st century


*Planes bombed back in the '80s (2 of only 3 Air India flights with hull loses (#3 in the list) in the last 30 years ...

Certainly a good indicator of modern safety - NOT.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you want to understand why korean airlines and brazilian airlines used to have awful safety records, read malcolm gladwell's book "outliers".

however, these days, korean air has a top-tier safety record.

sensationalist post is sensational.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saram_



Joined: 13 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..agreed.

This article was in The Economist a few weeks back.
It accounts Air Safety...
A central theme is statistics can always be manipulated
Air travel is as safe as it ever has been in reality

A warming read..
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2013/01/air-safety
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Results of a safety audit of KAL conducted by Delta IN 1998 (edited by order of the Time Cops).

http://www.flight.org/blog/2009/10/01/korean-airlines-internal-audit-report-an-airline-waiting-to-happen/

My two favorite excerpts:

"The flight operations department appears to have poor communications between management and the staff. There is very little feedback to the crew on any matters, important or otherwise. The Foreign Captains especially, source most of the company information via the rumor network. This is a most unsatisfactory and of little benefit to anybody. It appears that the silent, secret dis-information technique is a current management style."

"Many complaints are received from the passengers that the aircraft cabins operated to HOT. Should be 24C to 25C and are often set at 28C plus."


Last edited by diver on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A wise man once insisted on flying with Qantas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
Results of a safety audit of KAL conducted by Delta a few years back.

http://www.flight.org/blog/2009/10/01/korean-airlines-internal-audit-report-an-airline-waiting-to-happen/

My two favorite excerpts:

"The flight operations department appears to have poor communications between management and the staff. There is very little feedback to the crew on any matters, important or otherwise. The Foreign Captains especially, source most of the company information via the rumor network. This is a most unsatisfactory and of little benefit to anybody. It appears that the silent, secret dis-information technique is a current management style."

"Many complaints are received from the passengers that the aircraft cabins operated to HOT. Should be 24C to 25C and are often set at 28C plus."


An even better excerpt from beginning of that article is this one:
wrote:
The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in September 1998


which occurred right after the crash of Flight 801 in Guam in 1997 and resulted in major changes in flight operations and other procedures and it is of note that flight 801 in 1997 was the LAST flight that resulted in a passenger fatality.

Air India was rated 3rd worst but their last incident was in May of 1990 and there was NO loss of life in that hull loss. Last crash with loss of life occurred in June of 1985 and was caused by a terrorist bomb.

Also notable is the exclusion of companies like:

Pan-Am (now part of DELTA) - flight 103 anyone? how about Tenerife.

American Airlines: 5 downed planes including 2 hijacked flights on Sept 11.
587 passengers and ~2500 on the ground killed.

Not picking on ANY AIRLINE since the majority incidents were NOT the fault of the airline
but to make the point that the original article from Jet Airliner Crash Data Evaluation Centre (JACDEC) is misleading in the extreme.



.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
hogwonguy1979



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10-15 years ago, yeah I would have a problem flying Korean Air, there were jokes around like KAL=Kills A Lot

Since then they brought in Delta's managers to look at the culture etc, made recs and implented them

Now they are in the top 10 airlines in the world overall on par with Cathay, Singapore etc. I give them a hell of a lot of credit for doing such an overhaul

I'd fly them over a US carrier any time.

That headline is as sensationalistic as anything the KT comes up with
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daelim



Joined: 18 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard that Korean Air insists it's pilots speak only English in the cockpit at all stages of the flight these days.

It's to try and get over the silly "older is wiser" mentality Koreans have. For example, the younger co-pilot disagrees with something the older captain does or says... they think speaking English only will allow the younger chap to air his opinion and potentially avert a disaster Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
An even better excerpt from beginning of that article is this one:
wrote:
The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in September 1998


.


You caught me. I clearly intended to pass off the report as current by stating in the very first sentence of my post that it was from "a few years back".

Rolling Eyes

Further, I think it was quite clear that I was making fun of communication strategies in Korean companies (I thought a lot of teachers here could relate to that) and climate control on the aircraft (which ANYONE who has ridden public transit in Korea could relate to).

Have a drink. Smoke a cigar. Relax.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The results do not take into account the cause of the hull losses, or whether the airline is at fault, so they are not a perfect measure of how safely an airline behaves."

Why isn't American Airlines on the list?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shauneyz



Joined: 26 May 2008
Location: The land of Nod

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daelim wrote:
I heard that Korean Air insists it's pilots speak only English in the cockpit at all stages of the flight these days.

It's to try and get over the silly "older is wiser" mentality Koreans have. For example, the younger co-pilot disagrees with something the older captain does or says... they think speaking English only will allow the younger chap to air his opinion and potentially avert a disaster Smile


A lot of the situations of why crashes happened were because of this, and there all explained in that Gladwell book mentioned before.

...They even went so far as to assume English names while they were flying -- the notion was that if they had some sort of new identity then they would also be more inclined to speak up over a superior.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
littlelisa



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
An even better excerpt from beginning of that article is this one:
wrote:
The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in September 1998


.


You caught me. I clearly intended to pass off the report as current by stating in the very first sentence of my post that it was from "a few years back".

Rolling Eyes

Further, I think it was quite clear that I was making fun of communication strategies in Korean companies (I thought a lot of teachers here could relate to that) and climate control on the aircraft (which ANYONE who has ridden public transit in Korea could relate to).

Have a drink. Smoke a cigar. Relax.


Well, I for one regularly interpret "a few" to mean 15. I'm sure it wasn't intentional (probably remembered hearing about it a while ago and not sure how long and didn't notice the year in the article, I assume), but it did make it sound like it was a current thing/happening recently, when it clearly isn't. I think it looked more misleading because it came in the context of a thread about a sensationalized/misleading article saying that Korean air is not very safe currently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:


"Many complaints are received from the passengers that the aircraft cabins operated to HOT. Should be 24C to 25C and are often set at 28C plus."


Whatever else is proven, this is unquestionably true. The various airlines in Korea are great, but the planes are way too hot. Similarly, Incheon is a fantastic airport but is also consistently too hot. Still, price and schedule being equal, I would choose the Korean carrier over a North American one every time (the same with spending time in Incheon vs most other airports I`ve been in).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlelisa wrote:


Well, I for one regularly interpret "a few" to mean 15.


Oh, so you agree with me? Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International