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Korean Air's safety record - 5th worst in the world.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

During take-off, first Chuseok trip to Busan with the wife, and this Korean Air Stewardess in the jumpseat was TOTALLY flirting with me with her eyes. I just smiled and would look down, only to find her staring at me again. My wife picked-up on her doing it, and gave her this really serious look of death. I was scolded.

Thirty minutes later, I got up to use the toilet, and the stewardess followed me! Just as I was opening the toilet door and had entered, her hand caught my elbow. With the utmost grace, she said, "Sorry for staring, but I was trying to get your attention. I have to show you something."

My heart was beating really fast, and I noticed my wife was dozing. Could this really be happening?

That's when the stewardess gave me a nudge toward the mirror, and pointed-out that I had some chocolate smeared on the side of my face opposite of the side my wife had been sitting on.

Excellence in Flight... Korean.... Air.... Embarassed
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littlelisa



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
littlelisa wrote:


Well, I for one regularly interpret "a few" to mean 15.


Oh, so you agree with me? Very Happy



No, that was sarcasm. A few is 3-5. 15 is more than a few years.
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlelisa wrote:
diver wrote:
littlelisa wrote:


Well, I for one regularly interpret "a few" to mean 15.


Oh, so you agree with me? Very Happy



No, that was sarcasm. A few is 3-5. 15 is more than a few years.


It depends how old you are...

Man, a few people here need to lighten up Smile It's not 15years yet. Unless you think 8 months is a year Smile
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

14 years, 5 months would be closer to 15 than "a few" and you don't need 8-month long years to calculate it or would you simply prefer to call it 173 months old and recycled again in 2009 under the pretext of being current?

But if 15 is a few then I am only a sweet young fella now.... 50 year old teenagers anyone? Wink

.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Korean Air. I especially like the amount of entertainment options contained in the back of the seat headrest. Wat I don't like (and this is also a safety concern0 is the lax enforcement of smoking in the bathrooms. On every flight I've witnessed some ajoshi )who thinks the rules don't apply to him) walk past me to go to the bathroom. On his way back he reeks of cigarette smoke. And none of the Korean passengers confront him about it. Neither do the flight staff. Surely they can smell the smoke on him if I do.

This is one thing I don't like. Too much tolerance of the 'ajosshi factor'.
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
I like Korean Air. I especially like the amount of entertainment options contained in the back of the seat headrest. Wat I don't like (and this is also a safety concern0 is the lax enforcement of smoking in the bathrooms. On every flight I've witnessed some ajoshi )who thinks the rules don't apply to him) walk past me to go to the bathroom. On his way back he reeks of cigarette smoke. And none of the Korean passengers confront him about it. Neither do the flight staff. Surely they can smell the smoke on him if I do.

This is one thing I don't like. Too much tolerance of the 'ajosshi factor'.


If you are right, then that is pretty damn alarming. However, I thought that airplane toilets were equipped with highly-sensitive smoke detectors.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
An even better excerpt from beginning of that article is this one:
wrote:
The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in September 1998


.


You caught me. I clearly intended to pass off the report as current by stating in the very first sentence of my post that it was from "a few years back".

Rolling Eyes

.


When someone writes that Korean Air's safety record is the 5th worst in the world...the current tense does lead people to think that said someone is talking about the present. Likewise a "few" is not generally thought of as 14-15.

Seriously when you get together with your friends and talk about having a few beers...are those the kinds of numbers that come up?

Maybe you didn't intend to be misleading but you were pretty clearly leading for sensationalism.

However that's okay...there are plenty of legit things to bash Korea for...and they aren't from 15 years ago.
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
diver wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
An even better excerpt from beginning of that article is this one:
wrote:
The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in September 1998


.


You caught me. I clearly intended to pass off the report as current by stating in the very first sentence of my post that it was from "a few years back".

Rolling Eyes

.


When someone writes that Korean Air's safety record is the 5th worst in the world...the current tense does lead people to think that said someone is talking about the present. Likewise a "few" is not generally thought of as 14-15.

Seriously when you get together with your friends and talk about having a few beers...are those the kinds of numbers that come up?

Maybe you didn't intend to be misleading but you were pretty clearly leading for sensationalism.

However that's okay...there are plenty of legit things to bash Korea for...and they aren't from 15 years ago.


I READ it a few years ago. I didn't check to see when it was written. Know why? It wasn't important to my post because it was a joke. The point of my post was that the safety audit found the same things we bitch about on here on a daily basis - poor communication and uncomfortably hot transportation. I think most people got it, except for the pedants.

You know all those jokes that feature talking animals? While everyone else its chuckling, you're the guy saying 'But animals don't talk'. You must be a lot of fun Rolling Eyes Relax, have a glass of milk.

I was just having some fun, but if you want get get serious then I will concede that I used the word 'few' incorrectly if you'll concede that:

1) Your argument is a straw man. The main point of my post was not to argue that 'a few' = 15.
2) You have not addressed the two main points of the post: Korean management style often features poor communication and that, when it comes to public transportation, climate control could be a lot better

I have been accused of being disingenuous (even 'sensationalist') for posting a 15 year-old report in a thread about the CURRENT safety ranking of Korean Airlines. However, their rank is based on 'safety' performance over the LAST THIRTY YEARS ("The ratings take into account the number and deadliness of hull loss accidents and serious incidents in the last 30 years of operation in relation to passenger miles flown.") . I think a report that describes KAL's safety issues well within that time frame would be relevant to the discussion. Further, despite the debate over my use of 'a few years ago', I clearly did NOT try to pass off the report as current or even recent.

For the record, I like KAL and fly them often. I also think the rankings on this list are suspect. American should probably be on there, for one.


Last edited by diver on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are so many airlines around the world that still fly Soviet era airplanes (airlines you only hear of when one of their plane crashes) that the notion that Korean Air is anywhere near the bottom of list is asinine.
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original article is gone (though the cached version is still around on Google). I wonder if it "expired" or the lawyers got involved?
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Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Korean Air's safety record - 5th worst in the world. Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
I rememember when I first visited Korea many moons ago, Korean Air had perhaps the world's worst safety record. It's planes were crashing all over the place. It was right up there with Air China for crashes. Other airlines even stopped their route sharing arrangement wirh Korean Air because their passengers safety could not be guaranteed. Admittedly, its safety record has improved significantly over the past decade. But a recent study of all airlines safety record since 1983 still places its safety record at #5. That is, only four other airlines have worse overall safety records.

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-10-most-dangerous-airlines-171800816.html

Having said that, at least they have attractive flight attendants. Very Happy


and it makes you feel so happy. no?
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GEOM



Joined: 04 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
The original article is gone (though the cached version is still around on Google). I wonder if it "expired" or the lawyers got involved?


Most likely the lawyers got involved.

Korean Air has arrested people before for making accusations regarding lax safety and banned youtube videos in Korea.

Case in Point (video from 2009 by former Korean Air Pilot):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRV6XVgizSw

Quote:
This content is not available in your country due to a legal complaint.




Korean Air may have improved since they brought in Delta Airlines managers, but internet rumors seems to indicate that Korean Air safety procedures are starting to slip again. The accusations are convincing, since they all relate the same experiences.

Chae Moon Lee's blog and his experiences with Korean Air.

http://blog.daum.net/leechaemoon/56

Quote:
I was an innocent informer who accused Korean Airlines’ illegalities to the prosecutor, but I was arrested for one year, so there is no the justice in South Korea, but the irregularities and corruption which made by bribed judges. Korean Airlines has been using unqualified pilots for 40 years. They allowed inexperienced pilots, helicopter pilots, or even aircraft engineers to pilot the airplanes. Pilot licenses should be given after successful practical tests. But Korean air substituted such important tests with simple oral tests and simulator tests.


The accusations matches those made by expat pilots on another online forum:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/481375-sooo-you-want-fly-korean-airlines-do-you-3.html

Quote:
Their knowledge of the aircraft is appalling and their idea of competence is to be able to quote procedures parrot fashion without understanding what they are doing, or even if it is appropriate to the situation.

Quote:

Crews refuse to de-ice their aircraft because they consider it macho to take off with an ice covered aeroplane. I have had debates with Korean captains on more than one occasion about the state of the aircraft, and have been challenged by ground engineers for recommending to the operating captain that we remove the ice and snow that was evident on the aircraft.


Quote:
Interesting to read all the experiences. As an ex KAL B777 Captain I can verify many of the stories to be true. Although I had a great run through training and no online problems after 3 years I decided to get out before something bad happened. Unfortunately I watched as the operational standards got worse, I watched expats being blamed for local pilots lack of skill, I watched great operators crucified by the system of punishment. After 34 years in the industry with over 20000 hours I decided to get out while I still loved the job. Many of my buddies bailed at the same time.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
[r

I have been accused of being disingenuous (even 'sensationalist') for posting a 15 year-old report in a thread about the CURRENT safety ranking of Korean Airlines. However, their rank is based on 'safety' performance over the LAST THIRTY YEARS .



What does the last thirty years have to do with CURRENT safety performance given that the last of those years was 15 (or so) years ago?
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
diver wrote:
[r

I have been accused of being disingenuous (even 'sensationalist') for posting a 15 year-old report in a thread about the CURRENT safety ranking of Korean Airlines. However, their rank is based on 'safety' performance over the LAST THIRTY YEARS .



What does the last thirty years have to do with CURRENT safety performance given that the last of those years was 15 (or so) years ago?


Rolling Eyes
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