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The only good foreigner....is a 'new' foreigner?
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: The only good foreigner....is a 'new' foreigner? Reply with quote

So often we hear about people who have worked here for years being passed over for new arrivals. A guy will have years of experience and good references but struggles to find a new job. We were discussing this Saturday night at the pub, then a Kiwi friend quips. "How can you not know the score by now? In the eyes of Korean employers the only good foreigner is a new one. For all their complaining about 'unqualified teachers' they don't really want experienced teachers. They want young grads who will be overwhelmed by the new experience of working in Asia and who don't know the game. People who have been around for a while, regardless of their credentials and teaching experience, are always going to be overlooked in favor of the 24 year old just out of college."

What do you think? Is this analysis too cynical? Are there other factors at play? Or does it hit the proverbial nail on the head?

Smith
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goreality



Joined: 09 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somewhat right. Definitely with the places that are more about image than anything. You don't have to pay them as much, they don't know their rights and the tricks of the trade if you are planning on abusing them, and you can blame anything on experience.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember listening to a conversation between two Korean teachers about a new NET who was coming to their school and they said they were pleased because the NET was young. I asked them why and they said it was nicer to have young people about the place because they are livelier, more enthusiastic etc... I honestly don't think they see NETs as performing a real teaching role in the schools. They seem to regard them more like you would a distant relative coming to stay with you who you'd prefer to be wide eyed about everything you show them, gushing about your wonderful hospitality and not have too many demands.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the bottom level, for entry level positions it is probably somewhat accurate albeit somewhat cynical.

Entry level is what it is. Entry level. They don't need experience and don't want to pay for "old hands".

I think that people with "some experience" have enjoyed the "easy life" on the ESL gravy train and failed to improve their skill sets to the point where they can move onward or upward.

They "get stuck" competing with the "new kid on the block" for the entry level job but since they are "experienced" they come with their own baggage and expectations.
They are usually unwilling to accept entry level terms and wages for the entry level job even though that is what they are applying for and that is all the employer requires/wants.

Professional development is more than just a catch phrase.

Move on, move up or move out.

.
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NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've been here for several years, you shouldn't be applying for the same jobs as newbs.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course its true. Even among Koreans it is the older folks with more experience struggle to find work. its kinda ridiculous that they expect you to spend your 20's in university amassing paper qualifications then by the time you hit 35 you're already viewed as over the hill.

There is a huge ageist bias in this country- its not just about foreigners.
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NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Universities tend to look for older instructors.
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Who's Your Daddy?



Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, your friend is right.

And 90% of the jobs are entry level. Apart from universities, I think they all prefer young (yes, even the public schools).
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newb



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll walk on water in Korea if you're young (20's) blond and blue eyed female. She'll be worshipped like a goddess of EFL teacher.
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creeper1



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: progress Reply with quote

To me, a job at an international school is not really in EFL. That would be a big move up I guess.

IN EFL I guess universities are the top of a very short career ladder.

Some EFL intstructors are given titles like senior teacher but in reality, Koreans are going to be the ones with hiring and firing powers. They will also hold true senior positions.

IF you want a career, EFL is a bad option.

If you want an easy job with good relative salary it is a good option.
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fustiancorduroy



Joined: 12 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:
OP, your friend is right.

And 90% of the jobs are entry level. Apart from universities, I think they all prefer young (yes, even the public schools).


This is largely true, but there are some hagwons, especially in Gangnam, that only hire more experienced teachers, those with at least 2 or 3 years of experience and a proven record of teaching success. I work at such a hagwon.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote:
If you've been here for several years, you shouldn't be applying for the same jobs as newbs.


Sure, you may be able to use contacts to get a job that pays 100 bucks more, or if you're one of a fortunate minority- a Uni job. If you're into teaching semi-adults.

But dont lets pretend there is any "career advancement" in Korean esl.

There is no "career ladder" but rather a slide to the bottom. With every year of experience or higher qualification you become less desirable to employers here. Koreans do not seek out expertise, they're scared witless by it.
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Otherside



Joined: 06 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newb wrote:
You'll walk on water in Korea if you're young (20's) blond and blue eyed female. She'll be worshipped like a goddess of EFL teacher.


True that. I had an interview at a public school yesterday, I was the second-last one. Absolutely nailed it. Usually the hiring committee tries to play it cool and says "we'll get back to you", this time I got "Please don't take any other jobs we'll call you tomorrow". As I'm walking out, I see the final candidate, Attractive N.American female in her 20s.

Talk about a buzz kill, It felt like I was at the football tryouts with Messi.
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creeper1



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Otherside wrote:
newb wrote:
You'll walk on water in Korea if you're young (20's) blond and blue eyed female. She'll be worshipped like a goddess of EFL teacher.


True that. I had an interview at a public school yesterday, I was the second-last one. Absolutely nailed it. Usually the hiring committee tries to play it cool and says "we'll get back to you", this time I got "Please don't take any other jobs we'll call you tomorrow". As I'm walking out, I see the final candidate, Attractive N.American female in her 20s.

Talk about a buzz kill, It felt like I was at the football tryouts with Messi.


Well be sure to update us on if you landed the job. WTF anyway! PS schools doing in person interviews???? Question

I thought these jobs were given out to waygooks doing, at most, a skype or telephone interview.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best quote in a while: "I think that people with "some experience" have enjoyed the "easy life" on the ESL gravy train and failed to improve their skill sets to the point where they can move onward or upward." Thanks, ttompatz.

X10000

This point has been made before, but it's amazing that it doesn't settle in. Many on this board know some very successful ESL teachers, and the reason they're successful is that they've consistently upgraded their qualifications and skill sets.
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