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The only good foreigner....is a 'new' foreigner?
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swashbuckler wrote:
Sorry, I mean to write that 2.7 to 3.3 to include a housing ALLOWANCE, not housing.


My university pays newcomers on the low end of that scale.

It used to be a lot less. My salary's doubled over the years.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many years have you worked at that university?
OK, so you get a 3% a year raise. (Does that outpace inflation?)
How many 3% annual increases does it take to double your salary? Quite a few I would imagine.
12ax7 wrote:
Once you've reached a certain salary, a 3% yearly raise becomes a considerable bump up.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
How many years have you worked at that university?
OK, so you get a 3% a year raise. (Does that outpace inflation?)
How many 3% annual increases does it take to double your salary? Quite a few I would imagine.
12ax7 wrote:
Once you've reached a certain salary, a 3% yearly raise becomes a considerable bump up.


It varies from 3-5%, actually. It's not quite double what I started with at university, but it will be in a couple of years (it's nearly triple what I earned at my first job at a hagwon).

I've been teaching here so long, I've had kids that I taught at the hagwon turn up in my freshman class at university. One of them earned a masters in English education a few years ago.
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I received an email from a recruiter just yesterday. As I have several years teaching experience at public schools he's having difficulty placing me. His email said, "as you know most employers prefer teachers with less experience."

There it is. Right from the horse's mouth. Confused
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newb



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
I received an email from a recruiter just yesterday. As I have several years teaching experience at public schools he's having difficulty placing me. His email said, "as you know most employers prefer teachers with less experience."

There it is. Right from the horse's mouth. Confused


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep as Scorpion said, many recruiters tell you that schools prefer less or no experienced when picking their teachers. Rolling Eyes

But you also have to make it a rule to take what recruiters say with a pit of salt. Many recruiters lie and manipulate both potential teachers and the schools they want to place potential teachers at. Many Korean recruiters are not nice people and their bait and switch tactics are despicable.

They can sense desperation and they use it to mess foreigners around. Never be desperate. Does anybody know Princeton English School in Ulsan? Last yr a friend asked me about them and I said to him, just look at the criteria.

It included that no experience was needed and your BA/other 4 yr degree could be in anything. Wow, great commitment to recruiting solid foreigner English teachers! Apparently the chap that runs the school is a recruiter. Enough said.
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creeper1



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: OP Reply with quote

So OP - update us. Did you get a job or not?
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happiness



Joined: 04 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

earthquakez wrote:
Yep as Scorpion said, many recruiters tell you that schools prefer less or no experienced when picking their teachers. Rolling Eyes

But you also have to make it a rule to take what recruiters say with a pit of salt.


yep, i got hired specifically because i had experience. of course, im in country.

I got my better jobs by talking directly to the people hiring, so if you can do that...
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happiness



Joined: 04 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

earthquakez wrote:
Yep as Scorpion said, many recruiters tell you that schools prefer less or no experienced when picking their teachers. Rolling Eyes

But you also have to make it a rule to take what recruiters say with a pit of salt.


yep, i got hired specifically because i had experience. of course, im in country.

I got my better jobs by talking directly to the people hiring, so if you can do that...
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evidently not for public school jobs. I've heard if you don't have previous Korean public school experience forget it. However the word young may be more pertinent to the hiring game.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
Man, some of these salaries are insanely low. I taught a couple of semesters university ESL between when I finished my MBA and when I started my Ph.D. This was 1999 and I was getting 2.5 a month and the university provided us with housing. I was making more than my university salary on the outside every month, and killing it over the breaks. We taught 15 hours a week, and had either a 3 or 4 day schedule. No teaching over the fully paid breaks. My wife was working at the time, and I think we banked damn near 100 that year. Guess times must have changed.


Supply and demand bro! Rare to get foriegners in those days. Screwed US economy has flooded this market since 2009. Prior to that, even BA's made money. There was no talk of "qualifications". In a few years, unless there's a miraculous American recovery, I suspect we'll all be jumping to China, Vietnam, etc.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

earthquakez wrote:
Yep as Scorpion said, many recruiters tell you that schools prefer less or no experienced when picking their teachers. Rolling Eyes

But you also have to make it a rule to take what recruiters say with a pit of salt. Many recruiters lie and manipulate both potential teachers and the schools they want to place potential teachers at. Many Korean recruiters are not nice people and their bait and switch tactics are despicable.

They can sense desperation and they use it to mess foreigners around. Never be desperate. Does anybody know Princeton English School in Ulsan? Last yr a friend asked me about them and I said to him, just look at the criteria.

It included that no experience was needed and your BA/other 4 yr degree could be in anything. Wow, great commitment to recruiting solid foreigner English teachers! Apparently the chap that runs the school is a recruiter. Enough said.


Perhaps that was said in the past because they were desperate. Before the crash, all recruiter ads said this. Maybe some still say it because they don't update it.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There may be several reasons why schools would prefer inexperienced teachers. Many feel that younger teachers will have more energy.

But the biggest reason seems to be that inexperienced teachers are easier

to take advantage of. It's easier to force unpaid overtime on newbies, easier to cut corners because the newbie typically doesn't know what to do
about it.

As a general rule of thumb, I felt that schools who want only newbies are schools which are best avoided.

But I'm sure there are exceptions.

With PS jobs, the bottom line is salary.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weigookin74 wrote:
PRagic wrote:
Man, some of these salaries are insanely low. I taught a couple of semesters university ESL between when I finished my MBA and when I started my Ph.D. This was 1999 and I was getting 2.5 a month and the university provided us with housing. I was making more than my university salary on the outside every month, and killing it over the breaks. We taught 15 hours a week, and had either a 3 or 4 day schedule. No teaching over the fully paid breaks. My wife was working at the time, and I think we banked damn near 100 that year. Guess times must have changed.


Supply and demand bro! Rare to get foriegners in those days. Screwed US economy has flooded this market since 2009. Prior to that, even BA's made money. There was no talk of "qualifications".


The Great Recession began in 2007 and ended in June of 2009.

The United States economy is not terrible right now.

(What is changing the face of ESL with "supply and demand" is increased awareness of Korea. That is by far the biggest factor. More people are coming than before- and this had happened before the Great Recession- because they know about this. This number is growing every year.)

Some people (incidentally not economists) are insistent the global economy is in the gutter. I disagree, which draws ire. Just sharing information. (Remember, the more you insist otherwise, the more flooded the market becomes.)

Quote:
Daniel Kuester, director of undergraduate studies for the department of economics, said that those who earn a college degree will earn 70 percent more income over the course of a lifetime than those who only complete high school.

“Probably about 30 years ago, the wage premium of a college degree was estimated to be about 20 percent,” Kuester said. “Today, it’s closer to 70 percent, so on average a college graduate earns about 70 percent more than someone without a degree. Certainly we’ve become more of a specialized society focused on skills attained in college.”

Kuester defined a wage premium as the return on an education, or how much a college graduate earns relative to someone without a college degree. Although tuition costs seem steep, the value of a college education is indisputable, he said.

“The average unemployment rate for a college graduate is at 3.7 percent,” Kuester said. “That’s less than half of the overall unemployment rate in the United States right now. For those folks who don’t have a high school degree, their unemployment rate for 25 and older is 12 percent. So it’s more than three times as likely that someone who didn’t finish high school doesn’t get employed relative to someone who has a college degree. And it’s about twice as likely that someone who doesn’t finish college would be unable to find employment, relative to someone who has that bachelor’s degree.”
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weigookin74 wrote:
earthquakez wrote:
Yep as Scorpion said, many recruiters tell you that schools prefer less or no experienced when picking their teachers. Rolling Eyes

But you also have to make it a rule to take what recruiters say with a pit of salt. Many recruiters lie and manipulate both potential teachers and the schools they want to place potential teachers at. Many Korean recruiters are not nice people and their bait and switch tactics are despicable.

They can sense desperation and they use it to mess foreigners around. Never be desperate. Does anybody know Princeton English School in Ulsan? Last yr a friend asked me about them and I said to him, just look at the criteria.

It included that no experience was needed and your BA/other 4 yr degree could be in anything. Wow, great commitment to recruiting solid foreigner English teachers! Apparently the chap that runs the school is a recruiter. Enough said.


Perhaps that was said in the past because they were desperate. Before the crash, all recruiter ads said this. Maybe some still say it because they don't update it.


Nope, the ad clearly said that no experience was necessary and your BA or other degree could be in anything. It had details like 'testimonies' from their teachers and didn't look out of date. It looked like it was written at that time. Great, innit? Laughing

Obviously Princeton English School and the recruiter who runs it couldn't care less about experienced teachers and appropriate degrees or resumes showing their potential recruit could actually be experienced in English study at university and/or English teaching.

This ad was put on the net in SEPTEMBER 2012. I told my mate that he was too good for this kind of amateur place. He got a job in another place where they asked for experience in work that showed you taught English or used it actively in your line of work.

The job sounds pants when it has that kind of red flag waving, but again what do you expect from some recruiters esp when they run their own 'schools'? Rolling Eyes
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