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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Oh Boohoo. Jews have been calling us Nazi's at the drop of a hat for decades. Goose, gander.
Anyway, it is a fascist ethnostate. What do we expect of them? The degenerate liberalism their media promotes in our nations? That's not part of the strategy. Its their country and none of our business. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions |
Then why do they move to Israel or the USA (like the Ethiopian who killed a white girl at south pointe park in Miami on a Sunday afternoon cause she wouldn't bang him)?
| young_clinton wrote: |
| Gee thats funny I didn't hear about this is the New York Times. I wonder why? Must be the Zionist conspiracy has reached into the most reputable paper in the world. |
The nyt is owned by Zionist Jews and virtually all columnists are Zionist jews. What planet are you living on. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
Oh Boohoo. Jews have been calling us Nazi's at the drop of a hat for decades. Goose, gander.
Anyway, it is a fascist ethnostate. What do we expect of them? The degenerate liberalism their media promotes in our nations? That's not part of the strategy. Its their country and none of our business. |
Given that the US has given well over a 100 billion dollars to Israel, I think it is time that people become more aware of the Israeli racism such as discrimination against Palestinian-Israelis and Ethiopian-Israelis as well as other Jews of non-European descent. I don't think the US should be giving money to a state that engages in these practices, and I am not even mentioning the war crimes committed by the IDF (okay, I just referenced it). |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions |
Then why do they move to Israel or the USA (like the Ethiopian who killed a white girl at south pointe park in Miami on a Sunday afternoon cause she wouldn't bang him)? |
Why did I as an American in good academic standing decide to leave a PhD program to travel and work in Asia? I have my reasons as an individual just as some Ethiopians have their own individual reasons. Speaking of PhDs, one of my Ethiopian friends originally left to pursue a PhD in physics. However, it is his plan after working 2 more years or so to return to Ethiopia for good and take up a position there as a physics professor.
And of course, I am sure that the Ethiopian Jews wanted to see or even live in the Holy Land of their religion. Incidentally, another thing that bugs me is Israel is supposed to let all Jews come to Israel. Yet, when some of these Jews happen to have some African blood, suddenly the tune gets changed to "we were being generous and allowed to come." No, no, it was their right as Jews to come to Israel!
As for the story you referenced, I know nothing about it, but I think it suffices to say that a few bad apples should not lead to condemnation of the whole barrel of apples.
Last edited by Konglishman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Even if some of us have overreacted, you do realize that those statements were not made in a vacuum, don't you. After all, Israeli has consistently engaged in discrimination against Jews of non-European descent.
| Fox wrote: |
So this is what I take away from the discussion so far:
1) Poor Ethiopian immigrants that Israel generously chose to open the door to are strongly encouraged to get short-term birth control shots, perhaps without fully realizing what they're getting.
2) This causes confusion and gives the impression that these people -- people to whom, again, the Israeli government opened its doors of its own free will -- are being oppressed.
3) The Israeli government responds to this by putting out a directive specifically instructing doctors not to give these women birth control shots unless it is absolutely certain they understand what they're getting and want it.
4) Conclusion: Israel is like Nazi Germany.
5) Addendum: Israel is somehow 'wrong with God,' Ethiopians need not be grateful at having received the opportunity to immigrate to prosperous Israel because Ethiopia is rich in vague "spiritual" happiness (whatever that means), and Jews are not allowed to use any sign but the Menora as a symbol of their identity.
Congratulations to OnTheOtherHand for attempting to approach this issue with at least some nuance. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| Even if some of us have overreacted, you do realize that those statements were not made in a vacuum, don't you. After all, Israeli has consistently engaged in discrimination against Jews of non-European descent. |
Israel has behaved in a discriminatory fashion? So had early every country in the world, many to a much more extreme degree. That might not excuse anything, but it does nicely illustrate that the uniquely-intense rancor against Israel is driven more by political tribalism than anything sincere. It is not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, but the uniquely intense criticism the only Jewish state in the world receives from certain parties here does raise questions, especially when coupled with a lack of equal rancor at other nations.
That said, I do not think you are anti-Semitic. I think the people who do your thinking for you on this matter are anti-Semitic. You are just along for the ride, which is a shame. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions |
Then why do they move to Israel or the USA (like the Ethiopian who killed a white girl at south pointe park in Miami on a Sunday afternoon cause she wouldn't bang him)? |
Why did I as an American in good academic standing decide to leave a PhD program to travel and work in Asia? I have my reasons as an individual just as some Ethiopians have their own individual reasons. Speaking of PhDs, one of my Ethiopian friends originally left to pursue a PhD in physics. However, it is his plan after working 2 more years or so to return to Ethiopia for good and take up a position there as a physics professor.
And of course, I am sure that the Ethiopian Jews wanted to see or even live in the Holy Land of their religion. Incidentally, another thing that bugs me is Israel is supposed to let all Jews come to Israel. Yet, when some of these Jews happen to have some African blood, suddenly the tune gets changed to "we were being generous and allowed to come." No, no, it was their right as Jews to come to Israel!
As for the story you referenced, I know nothing about it, but I think it suffices to say that a few bad apples should not lead to condemnation of the whole barrel of apples. |
Avg IQ there is 63, similar to swedes with downs. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Even if some of us have overreacted, you do realize that those statements were not made in a vacuum, don't you. After all, Israeli has consistently engaged in discrimination against Jews of non-European descent. |
Israel has behaved in a discriminatory fashion? So had early every country in the world, many to a much more extreme degree. That might not excuse anything, but it does nicely illustrate that the uniquely-intense rancor against Israel is driven more by political tribalism than anything sincere. It is not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, but the uniquely intense criticism the only Jewish state in the world receives from certain parties here does raise questions, especially when coupled with a lack of equal rancor at other nations.
That said, I do not think you are anti-Semitic. I think the people who do your thinking for you on this matter are anti-Semitic. You are just along for the ride, which is a shame. |
Fun. We discuss what we read and Jews like to talk about Jews. Public discourse in USA media is Jews talking to each other. This is why Israel gets more attention. Its the Judaic intellectual civil war pushed up our asses everyday. Its not Jew haters driving discussions. It is Jews. Take some gd responsibility. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Fox, lets be clear about one thing. I have nothing against Israelis. Instead, I have a problem with the Israeli government and its policies. This is due to my own thinking and not someone else's.
Are other countries guilty of past wrongs? Absolutely, yes. For example, the USA has treated the Native Americans horribly and I would like to see that addressed, but that is not what this thread is about, now is it.
Now, getting back on topic, when South Africa engaged in apartheid, the world condemned it. One could argue that Israel is effectively engaging in apartheid. So, why should we not condemn it?
Instead, I hear you saying "other countries have done it." I am frankly disappointed in you. I did not think you would ever stoop to that.
| Fox wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Even if some of us have overreacted, you do realize that those statements were not made in a vacuum, don't you. After all, Israeli has consistently engaged in discrimination against Jews of non-European descent. |
Israel has behaved in a discriminatory fashion? So had early every country in the world, many to a much more extreme degree. That might not excuse anything, but it does nicely illustrate that the uniquely-intense rancor against Israel is driven more by political tribalism than anything sincere. It is not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, but the uniquely intense criticism the only Jewish state in the world receives from certain parties here does raise questions, especially when coupled with a lack of equal rancor at other nations.
That said, I do not think you are anti-Semitic. I think the people who do your thinking for you on this matter are anti-Semitic. You are just along for the ride, which is a shame. |
Last edited by Konglishman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
Fun. We discuss what we read and Jews like to talk about Jews. Public discourse in USA media is Jews talking to each other. This is why Israel gets more attention. |
My news feed has plenty of discussion-worthy issues regarding other nations in it, and I am sure everyone else's does as well, yet they get far less attention here, and we all know why. Why pretend otherwise?
| Titus wrote: |
| Its the Judaic intellectual civil war pushed up our asses everyday. Its not Jew haters driving discussions. It is Jews. Take some gd responsibility. |
Stop reading Jewish media if you dislike it? Seriously, it is an option to simply do other things with your time. How can I take responsibility for what you choose to read? |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Clearly, you have been buying into some racist pseudo-science (which does not stand up to scrutiny). Perhaps, when I get a chance, I will google whatever garbage you have been reading and then proceed to debunk it.
| Titus wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions |
Then why do they move to Israel or the USA (like the Ethiopian who killed a white girl at south pointe park in Miami on a Sunday afternoon cause she wouldn't bang him)? |
Why did I as an American in good academic standing decide to leave a PhD program to travel and work in Asia? I have my reasons as an individual just as some Ethiopians have their own individual reasons. Speaking of PhDs, one of my Ethiopian friends originally left to pursue a PhD in physics. However, it is his plan after working 2 more years or so to return to Ethiopia for good and take up a position there as a physics professor.
And of course, I am sure that the Ethiopian Jews wanted to see or even live in the Holy Land of their religion. Incidentally, another thing that bugs me is Israel is supposed to let all Jews come to Israel. Yet, when some of these Jews happen to have some African blood, suddenly the tune gets changed to "we were being generous and allowed to come." No, no, it was their right as Jews to come to Israel!
As for the story you referenced, I know nothing about it, but I think it suffices to say that a few bad apples should not lead to condemnation of the whole barrel of apples. |
Avg IQ there is 63, similar to swedes with downs. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
Now, getting back on topic, when South Africa engaged in apartheid, the world condemned it. One could argue that Israel is effectively engaging in apartheid. So, why should we not condemn it? |
South Africa is going to hell in part because of the world's zealous interference; I see plenty of South Africans here, and their agenda tends to be escape. Is that really the example you want to use? Moralizing global harassment based on shallow principles leading to national crisis? Perhaps it is a good fit: Israel may not be like South Africa, but the world's ill-considered handling of Israel is certainly reminiscent of its foolish handling of South Africa.
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Instead, I hear you saying "other countries have done it." I am frankly disappointed in you. I did not think you would ever stoop to that. |
That is not precisely what I said, though. I said other countries do as bad or worse, yet do not receive equal approbrium, which implies something beyond honest criticism is at work here. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly, South Africa has some major issues to deal with, but I would argue that these were inevitable problems. If the previous system had been allowed to stay in place, things would have become worse in the end. My guess is there would have eventually an explosion of anger, riots, and maybe even civil war.
Now, regarding your second statement, given that the US gives so much to Israel with a comparatively small population, I would say that makes the US indirectly culpable for some of what Israel does. For example, if you were to give money to a friend who then spends it on drugs. Maybe, the first time, you should not feel guilty, but if this same cycle of giving money that then gets used to buy drugs continues, then I would say some degree of culpability lies with the giver of the money. So, as an American, I feel it is my responsibility not to be quiet on this issue.
But I would agree that many in the Islamic world go too far in their rancor against Israel. I used to have an Egyptian roommate (before we had a falling out). He would get into some ridiculous tirades against Israel and Jewish people. I was actually defending the Israel side to some extent and saying they are human too and both sides need to work towards peace instead of hatred.
| Fox wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
Now, getting back on topic, when South Africa engaged in apartheid, the world condemned it. One could argue that Israel is effectively engaging in apartheid. So, why should we not condemn it? |
South Africa is going to hell in part because of the world's zealous interference; I see plenty of South Africans here, and their agenda tends to be escape. Is that really the example you want to use? Moralizing global harassment based on shallow principles leading to national crisis? Perhaps it is a good fit: Israel may not be like South Africa, but the world's ill-considered handling of Israel is certainly reminiscent of its foolish handling of South Africa.
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Instead, I hear you saying "other countries have done it." I am frankly disappointed in you. I did not think you would ever stoop to that. |
That is not precisely what I said, though. I said other countries do as bad or worse, yet do not receive equal approbrium, which implies something beyond honest criticism is at work here. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| Certainly, South Africa has some major issues to deal with, but I would argue that these were inevitable problems. If the previous system had been allowed to stay in place, things would have become worse in the end. My guess is there would have eventually an explosion of anger, riots, and maybe even civil war. |
The factors that ought to induce anger, riots, and "maybe even a civil war" are still largely in place, but now since a tiny black minority is at the top of the power structure, we have to all pretend things are better, even though they've actually gotten worse. The only thing the end of apartheid really achieved was satisfy a group of ideological voyeurs. When you put incompetents in charge, but maintain (arguably even increase) the incompetence, the results are predictable. The utmost calm, patience, and wisdom would have been required to handle the circumstances of South Africa, but the global community simply cannot handle that, so it would have been better served to mind its own business.
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Now, regarding your second statement, given that the US gives so much to Israel with a comparatively small population, I would say that makes the US indirectly culpable for some of what Israel does. |
Why limit it to direct aid? The U.S. has obvious ties to Saudi Arabia, does the sexism, religious discrimination, and brutality there reflect on the United States? Economic ties with China -- to the extent that China is a huge holder of U.S. debt -- are strong and influential, does China reflect on the United States? Japan and Korea are both important trade partners and allies, and both blatantly racist nations, so does this reflect on the U.S. or not? Sure, you can avoid this by arbitrarily declaring direct aid to be the only entanglement that "counts" with regards to the transfer of moral culpability, but that's just what it is: arbitrary.
That said, if you want to argue that the United States should cease transferring aid money to Israel, that is a completely legitimate position. Americans can do whatever they like with their money, including withholding it. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Why limit it to direct aid? The U.S. has obvious ties to Saudi Arabia, does the sexism, religious discrimination, and brutality there reflect on the United States? |
It does, but not to the extent that our involvement with Israel does. Foreign aid (that goes to governments) is a bribe, nothing more and nothing less. It helps the government which is in power, since that government can claim to have provided X, Y and Z which was actually paid for by the U.S. This suppresses other political movements which would otherwise hold greater sway. And those other political movements hold grudges about that kind of thing.
More importantly though, we don't have Senators saying "any attack on Saudi Arabia will be treated as an attack on the United States". So that kind of puts the actions of Israel in the spotlight for me as an American. |
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