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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: laugh out loud |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
There are posters on here making excess of 6 million a month.
For cash, plenty of cash, and to laugh all the way to the bank choose Korea.
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OK, first of all the only (and by only I mean 99+%) people making 6 mil a month are lifers with Korean wives (and hence the f visa). Also there is the dude who graduated from a top ranked university and published several books. How many people are like that though? The glass ceiling for almost everyone is very low.
Next, Korea has a widespread problem with Korean citizens underreporting income to avoid paying taxes. We are not filthy rich compared to the locals, and we are not filthy rich compared to our peers back home. For most of us, Korea is not as good of a deal as it once was.
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| People who were here 10 years ago will tell you it was like being a rock star and you made as much money as a middle income office worker at least. University jobs were easy to get as well. Do you know how much the women in Kebab restaurants make? About 2M. Recently my wife was talking to a woman who sold waffles in a tiny crappy tent outside my apartment she said she made 3M! |
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Furthermore, most ESLers have post graduate certifications (CELTA, TESOL) and/or advanced degrees. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Right. That's why we should ask for more, and stop treating ourselves like chopped liver. Otherwise, working hours (for no additional pay) will continue to go up, while salaries stagnate or decline (even as inflation is raging). |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Frankly, this constant need to compare salaries to Koreans is embarrassing.
One wonders if the negative stigma attached to English instructors has something to do with it... |
It's fairly normal human behaviour to want to look around and see what others are getting. Nobody wants to feel they're being taken advantage of. If your average Korean ESLer looks around they will see that they make around an average wage for a Korean of their age and position, plus free studio accommodation. They can't complain that they are getting ripped off by Korean standards, though they might feel they could be doing financially better, coming as they do from economically more advanced countries. Or they might feel the living abroad experience is worth it. |
I would disagree in part. A substantial number of "income" related threads on Dave's are more about people trying to boost up their own self-esteem (veiled gloating) than about being naturally curious about the Koreans in a sincere way. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Correct. And what that achieves for them (aside from being about to brag on the internet to strangers) is further flooding of the market, driving down wages for everyone, themselves included.
| creeper1 wrote: |
If someone is browsing this site it means they already have at least a passing interest in TEFL. I will direct that interest towards Korea.
Why don't you talk to some of your fellow expats about this. They are giving me all the ammo I need by bragging about making 5-6000 US dollars a month. |
(Creeper1 is a troll who lives in China who wants to direct people away from China and towards Korea.)
| creeper1 wrote: |
The air pollution is awful. Absolutely awful.
But that is just part of the poisonous environment.
The water is also very polluted including bottled water.
The food is poisonous. The food is really unhealthy.
Don't even come near China. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I would disagree in part. A substantial number of "income" related threads on Dave's are more about people trying to boost up their own self-esteem (veiled gloating) than about being naturally curious about the Koreans in a sincere way. |
I said they are trying to convince themselves they aren't being taken advantage of and you said they are trying to boost up their self esteem. Are they not pretty similar things? I certainly haven't sensed an aura of gloating along the lines of ha, ha, we are better than Koreans because we earn more than they do. Have you? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Jimskins wrote: |
Yeah gotta agree with Misher. To give you an example, my father-in-law was a Seoul high school teacher (recently retired). My wife said towards the end of his career his salary was 4.something. This puzzled me as my parents in law both come from poor farming backgrounds yet they live in a huge 55-pyeong new apartment in Jamsil which is worth around 2 billion. My wife said this is because throughout his career her dad was writing test prep questions on the side which almost doubled his income.
On a different point, 7 years ago I used to live in Daegu on a salary of 2.5 which I thought was a respectable wage. I did a language exchange with a guy who lived with his sister and her family. They had two kids and judging by the state of the house were struggling. The guy said his brother in law made the same as I did and it just wasn't enough to support a family, they had to rely on handouts from the parents.
And again this was the boondocks near Daegu, 7 years ago. I think to call yourselves 'middle class' (whatever that means) you've got to be taking home at least 4 mil after deductions, 5 in Seoul. |
Two people working can definately achieve this. Still, most of the population does not make 5 million a month or higher. 2 Mil by itself is at the lower end of the middle class but still middle class. I use to hear that Koreans looked well upon anything higher than 1.5 million a month. This was in more rural and smaller and medium sized cities. This was a few years ago. Not sure what it is now. |
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Clinton
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| oppa637 wrote: |
| Clinton wrote: |
Just for those curious:
A 40 year old non-executive working at Samsung who is doing "well" makes 70,000,000 a year or approximately 6,000,000 a month.
Now imagine everyone else. |
I know for fact this is wrong. At least not with my experiences at Samsung or Hyundai. 40 years would be aprox. 22 years of experiences putting him at 부장 . They make far more than that, especially considering bonuses. |
So how much do they actually make?
My sources include anecdotal evidence as well as news articles. Here's one source:
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/html/753/2945753.html
"At Samsung, if a regular manager gets promoted to an executive official position, his annual salary more than doubles to at least 150 million won ($129,500) in the first year alone."
Also, your math with regards to age is wrong. 22 years of experience would mean they started at 18, bypassing both university and military service. |
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oppa637
Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I meant to write 12 years exp. Slipped my mind. That would put them at 차장 level. Per year, we generally get a 4-5% raise while each promotion gives significantly more than that. Their base salary would be around 80mil plus their year end bonus and other bonuses that aren't included in that which would put them just under the 100mil.
But I suppose it matters what field they are in. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Clinton wrote: |
| oppa637 wrote: |
| Clinton wrote: |
Just for those curious:
A 40 year old non-executive working at Samsung who is doing "well" makes 70,000,000 a year or approximately 6,000,000 a month.
Now imagine everyone else. |
I know for fact this is wrong. At least not with my experiences at Samsung or Hyundai. 40 years would be aprox. 22 years of experiences putting him at 부장 . They make far more than that, especially considering bonuses. |
So how much do they actually make?
My sources include anecdotal evidence as well as news articles. Here's one source:
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/html/753/2945753.html
"At Samsung, if a regular manager gets promoted to an executive official position, his annual salary more than doubles to at least 150 million won ($129,500) in the first year alone."
Also, your math with regards to age is wrong. 22 years of experience would mean they started at 18, bypassing both university and military service. |
Wow, Samsung employee's can make a lot of money. It's more than my father ever made at Citibank in America with a similar title.
My father was a vice-president (one of hundreds) and the middle Atlantic regional manager of Citibank. He worked for them 25 years. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, Samsung employee's can make a lot of money. It's more than my father ever made at Citibank in America with a similar title.
My father was a vice-president (one of hundreds) and the middle Atlantic regional manager of Citibank. He worked for them 25 years. |
The Samsug salary is kind of what I'd have predicted but the Citibank one sounds low. Mind you, in the UK banks are pretty notorious for paying their high street staff low wages while handing out huge bonuses to traders |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: laugh out loud |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
There are posters on here making excess of 6 million a month.
For cash, plenty of cash, and to laugh all the way to the bank choose Korea.
|
OK, first of all the only (and by only I mean 99+%) people making 6 mil a month are lifers with Korean wives (and hence the f visa). Also there is the dude who graduated from a top ranked university and published several books. How many people are like that though? The glass ceiling for almost everyone is very low.
Next, Korea has a widespread problem with Korean citizens underreporting income to avoid paying taxes. We are not filthy rich compared to the locals, and we are not filthy rich compared to our peers back home. For most of us, Korea is not as good of a deal as it once was.
| Quote: |
| People who were here 10 years ago will tell you it was like being a rock star and you made as much money as a middle income office worker at least. University jobs were easy to get as well. Do you know how much the women in Kebab restaurants make? About 2M. Recently my wife was talking to a woman who sold waffles in a tiny crappy tent outside my apartment she said she made 3M! |
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Furthermore, most ESLers have post graduate certifications (CELTA, TESOL) and/or advanced degrees. |
Most? No. Besides...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html?page=all
So, it's not as if the average South Korean is uneducated. |
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Los Angeloser
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:06 am Post subject: |
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"AVG. less than 2 million Won" -
Which is why Korean media likes to report that Eng. teachers earn a highly exaggerated amount of money, to cause jealousy and hatred toward us. We get housing and ALL our bills paid, didn't you know? Besides, Koreans aren't very good at stats(despite their cough cough math skills) because they keep mixing up the two-tiers...
http://www.thekoreanlawblog.com/2013/01/inside-koreas-two-tiered-economy-by-tom.html |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
"AVG. less than 2 million Won" -
Which is why Korean media likes to report that Eng. teachers earn a highly exaggerated amount of money, to cause jealousy and hatred toward us. |
Is there something in the water in the country? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
"AVG. less than 2 million Won" -
Which is why Korean media likes to report that Eng. teachers earn a highly exaggerated amount of money, to cause jealousy and hatred toward us. We get housing and ALL our bills paid, didn't you know? Besides, Koreans aren't very good at stats(despite their cough cough math skills) because they keep mixing up the two-tiers...
http://www.thekoreanlawblog.com/2013/01/inside-koreas-two-tiered-economy-by-tom.html |
I'd say we're slightly above the average. But not by much. Information about this is severly outdated considering wages have been flat for the past 4 years, creeping inflation, and a bad exchange rate.
My point to posting this was for folks to stop looking down their noses at us as "poor" English teachers. We're neither poor nor rich. We seem to get these extreme impressions depending on who you talk to. The economy and other things over the past few years have knocked us down a couple of notches. But, we're still in the middle. (Lower end, but still there.) |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
"AVG. less than 2 million Won" -
Which is why Korean media likes to report that Eng. teachers earn a highly exaggerated amount of money, to cause jealousy and hatred toward us. We get housing and ALL our bills paid, didn't you know? Besides, Koreans aren't very good at stats(despite their cough cough math skills) because they keep mixing up the two-tiers...
http://www.thekoreanlawblog.com/2013/01/inside-koreas-two-tiered-economy-by-tom.html |
If you've been in Korea long enough and learn the language to understand their news and various reports, you will find above report to be spot on. Thus, what I've said earlier should make sense.
| Quote: |
Don't believe everything you see and hear in Korea. Most Koreans drive overpriced cars and live in luxury apartments that they can't afford just to show off. These people are one paycheck away from offing themselves but it's cultural to fake it to save face.
There is a real good reason why Korea is the best in suicide. |
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