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I'm bothered that joe public can look up my resume on Naver.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
I do remember however 'Homer' being a piece of work. Can I ask you a question? Now that we know that you were 'Homer', can you tell us if you are a Gyopo? Again, more power to you if you are. We are all something. But it would help us make sense of your ultra-apologist position on Korean matters.

He's married to a Korean and has Korean kids. (I would bet it's the same for madoka.)
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Smithington and World Traveller.

Guys it's irrelvant where the people behind these usernames come from or what colour they are. It's an anonymous internet forum. If you want to argue with their personas, do so on what they post here and nothing more.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:


Gyopo, yes or no?


WTH is with all of these posts asking for racial identity? Has this forum become StormFront or something?

Chill with the racial profiling, guys. Edward said it above - if ya want to argue with someone, do so on the merits (or lack there of) of their posts.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
@ Smithington and World Traveller.

Guys it's irrelvant where the people behind these usernames come from or what colour they are. It's an anonymous internet forum. If you want to argue with their personas, do so on what they post here and nothing more.


Thank you catflap. I know me and you have argued about things before, but that was really classy of you.

Heck, call HomerfromBusan a communist, a moron, a terrorist, wrong, a drunk, an idiot, a communist, or a porn star. But bringing up whatever ethnicity/race he is, as if that makes his points invalid, is beneath all of us, even though many of us, especially me, are pretty much lower than a snake's belly.

Quote:
When I think/dream of living in Canada again, I don't picture myself logging in to this site.


When I get back home I'm going to be an apologist for whatever group suits my fancy (Libertarians, Gun-Owners, Stoners, Cops, Republicans, Gamblers, Smokers, Greens, Vegetarians, The Black Panther Party, Stormfront, Vince McMahon, the Detroit Lions or whoever) and rant and rave about other things.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Guys it's irrelvant where the people behind these usernames come from or what colour they are.


I disagree. You didn't find it informative that Steelrails (for example) turned out to be a Gyopo? Doesn't that explain a lot about his posts? I think it speaks volumes. If Busan is also Korean, it would explain why (five years on) he still feels the need to defend Korea's honor. If he's not Korean, then we're rightly curious what spurs him on to continue posting half a decade after returning to Canada. "I just want to help newbies" is unconvincing.

Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with being curious about what motivates an individual to constantly and habitually sugarcoat the more negative aspects of Korean (or any other) culture.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does it matter that I'm pale? Does that factor into how I post and how others picture me?

The thing is, if you're looking for a "reason" why someone seems a certain way, you'll jump on whatever crosses your path. SR is ethnically korean, that MUST be why he feels the way he does!

But when it doesn't come... what then? When ya have a theory that Kyopos feel XYZ about Korea, and someone bucks that trend.. what are ya left with?

The truth is, we're all formed by many things in our life and history. Our skin color may be one of those, but for many, it's not highly ranked in importance. I've met kyopos here who were defined by their ethnicity, both here and back home. Others I've met, it's never once come up in the years of knowing them.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
So does it matter that I'm pale? Does that factor into how I post and how others picture me?

The thing is, if you're looking for a "reason" why someone seems a certain way, you'll jump on whatever crosses your path. SR is ethnically korean, that MUST be why he feels the way he does!

But when it doesn't come... what then? When ya have a theory that Kyopos feel XYZ about Korea, and someone bucks that trend.. what are ya left with?

The truth is, we're all formed by many things in our life and history. Our skin color may be one of those, but for many, it's not highly ranked in importance. I've met kyopos here who were defined by their ethnicity, both here and back home. Others I've met, it's never once come up in the years of knowing them.


In Korea your skin color does matter. You will be treated differently here depending on what ethnicity you appear to be. We aren't being like "stormfront" if we acknowledge that the experience of someone of Asian appearance is going to be different than the experience of someone of non-Asian appearance in a country that is as homogenous as Korea. If posters could acknowledge this instead of insinuating we are smelly antisocial losers we might not have to get into it when they were here or what ethnicity they are. Pretending that skin color is a non-issue in Korea is ridiculous.

As far as when someone lived here, that is relevant as well. Questions about budgeting, currency conversion, and whether or not foreigners are being treated a certain way because of the bird flu or a recent documentary are hard to comment on unless you are actually living here. I respect the opinion of people that were here a while back, but they should also understand Korea changes and it changes fast. The mood towards foreigners has changed in a lot of ways in the short time I have been here.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if we acknowledge that the experience of someone of Asian appearance is going to be different than the experience of someone of non-Asian appearance in a country that is as homogenous as Korea


First, the non-Asians here seem certainly fine with pontificating about what Koreans go through, what Asians go through, what blacks go through, what 3Ders from Sri Lanka go through, when it comes to criticizing Korea or Korean people. I think that in the free market of ideas, that that's fine. However when someone "defends" Korea, suddenly the ethnicity card gets played. Apparently people of Korean ethnicity are biased when it comes to talking about Korea, but not NETs of caucasian background.

Experience is certainly something to consider, however in this case, it is bias that is being alluded to.

Take black and white racism back home, it is true that white people do not experience what African-Americans go through. It is also true that a white guy who hangs around a black guy who screams racism all the time (or vice-versa regarding reverse racism) may notice that A)The white people may not being racist and B)That the dude may be a little off his rocker and bring about negative experiences due to his own personality faults and abrasive personality. It is also true that white people and black people who interact frequently on a regular basis and hang out together will have a better idea of what each goes through.

I think as someone who has grown up with caucasian parents, had large numbers of caucasian friends and roommates (as well as Asian and African-American), and who hangs out around a diverse group of NETs, many of whom are white, that I can draw a pretty decent bead on what people go through. What I may lack in personal experience, I gain in being an outside observer who IS American (My friends say I'm whiter than white people, somehow more Asian than Asian-Americans, and back when we didn't have any African-Americans in our town, I was called the 'blackest' in our town), and a better grasp of how Koreans do things and how to interact with them (Lots are surprised at the 'Jeong' I am able to bring- YES, they can and do separate ethnicity from nationality) than 95% of NETs I've met.

Typical long post, but I'll include some personal information- Part of the reason I am apologist, and the reason I am "very white, while very Asian" and are able to adapt well with my Korean co-workers, is that as a child I had to bounce from school to school. From a diverse public school, to a Waldorf school with mostly Jewish kids, to a diverse private school for 'The Gifted' to a Catholic school that was mostly white, to a racially diverse high school, dealing with my parents friends who were mostly white, a workplace that had a Korean boss and lots of black employees, and interacting with various Asian student orgs. and a Korean church, and significant time dealing with Arab-Americans and Muslims, i learned about how to adapt to different settings, peoples, and cultures. If you cling to where you came from, your new place is going to suck. Also, you realize how similar people are, you just have to find the right way to say things and appreciate what they appreciate. Often these groups would have problems or misconceptions about each other, and as someone who could 'go between' groups and was accepted by everyone, I could listen to their gripes and realize how they were based on a lack of understanding and context. Usually they thought there was an obvious reason why these other people "did something stupid", actually that reason was vary complex and rational within the sphere of things they had to deal with.


Quote:
and whether or not foreigners are being treated a certain way because of the bird flu


See this is what I'm talking about. "Koreans go berserk about bird flu, must be because they hate foreigners."

You do realize that this is in large part due to the massive restructuring of policies regarding transmission of disease following the SARS outbreak, right? Bah, just go with the racism explanation.

Quote:


I disagree. You didn't find it informative that Steelrails (for example) turned out to be a Gyopo? Doesn't that explain a lot about his posts? I think it speaks volumes.


So take a poster who bashes Korea, if I say "Oh, they're white, that explains things.", isn't that wrong?

If it is okay to say I am biased towards defending Korea because I am Korean and that's okay to use that argument, doesn't that mean that it's okay to say you are biased towards bashing Korea because you are white and that there's nothing wrong with me saying that?

I think if I said "You're just biased against Korea because you're white, your opinion isn't as valid" you would froth and foam over that and accuse me of racism, and rightly so.

By that standard, I think we should refrain from valuing the worth of someone's post based on their ethnicity.


Last edited by Steelrails on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
So does it matter that I'm pale? Does that factor into how I post and how others picture me?

The thing is, if you're looking for a "reason" why someone seems a certain way, you'll jump on whatever crosses your path. SR is ethnically korean, that MUST be why he feels the way he does!

But when it doesn't come... what then? When ya have a theory that Kyopos feel XYZ about Korea, and someone bucks that trend.. what are ya left with?

The truth is, we're all formed by many things in our life and history. Our skin color may be one of those, but for many, it's not highly ranked in importance. I've met kyopos here who were defined by their ethnicity, both here and back home. Others I've met, it's never once come up in the years of knowing them.


In Korea your skin color does matter. You will be treated differently here depending on what ethnicity you appear to be. We aren't being like "stormfront" if we acknowledge that the experience of someone of Asian appearance is going to be different than the experience of someone of non-Asian appearance in a country that is as homogenous as Korea. If posters could acknowledge this instead of insinuating we are smelly antisocial losers we might not have to get into it when they were here or what ethnicity they are. Pretending that skin color is a non-issue in Korea is ridiculous.

As far as when someone lived here, that is relevant as well. Questions about budgeting, currency conversion, and whether or not foreigners are being treated a certain way because of the bird flu or a recent documentary are hard to comment on unless you are actually living here. I respect the opinion of people that were here a while back, but they should also understand Korea changes and it changes fast. The mood towards foreigners has changed in a lot of ways in the short time I have been here.


Yet, me being white and all... I'd feel very uncomfortable thinking that my opinion/experiences represent white people in korea. I'm guessing it's a massive mixed bag, and that my part, while shared by some, is probably not shared by all.

How about instead of looking for shared skin colour, we/you start looking for shared experiences and values?

Honestly, man - I think we'd all be better off.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:


Honestly, man - I think we'd all be better off.


No, the people that actually get treated horribly by their employers or businesses won't be better off when you try to make them feel like it's their fault. New people that are thinking of coming to Korea won't be better off if they are given the same canned excuses for why some Korean people don't want to be around them. Most ESL teachers I know may believe this for 6 months to a year but then after that the facade wears off.

I wouldn't even be wondering what the ethnicity and geographic location of some people were if their posts weren't so far from reality. If a poster doesn't want to be judged based on those factors, then don't publicize them here. Usually people are offering their experience and background to try to give their posts some kind of credibility. Sometimes this backfires and it does the opposite. I guess to prevent this maybe you should encourage people not to post their personal details on here.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
I wouldn't even be wondering what the ethnicity and geographic location of some people were if their posts weren't so far from reality. If a poster doesn't want to be judged based on those factors, then don't publicize them here. Usually people are offering their experience and background to try to give their posts some kind of credibility. Sometimes this backfires and it does the opposite. I guess to prevent this maybe you should encourage people not to post their personal details on here.


It doesn't matter if a poster publicizes their ethnicity on here, once anyone brings up the ethnicity card - based on post content, "skewed" opinions so far from reality, or whatever - that stigma remains. I think it "speaks volumes" that PatrickGHBusan is still getting called a gyopo.

I agree with edwardcatflap, argue the point. I'm not the forum police, but you could have had that argument with SteelRails in the other thread and made your case perfectly fine without bringing up his ethnicity.

I understood to a degree your point about the Pakistani person coming on here and asking about what to expect as a Pakistani in Korea. I would also guess that people who aren't from Pakistan or that general region wouldn't jump in and give their commentary since it's pretty clear that the question is not directed at these people.

Or we could just preface all of the threads here with some disclaimer about how ethnic Koreans need not participate since they do not get to experience the non-Korean foreign experience, making their contributions less valid.

Quote:
No, the people that actually get treated horribly by their employers or businesses won't be better off when you try to make them feel like it's their fault. New people that are thinking of coming to Korea won't be better off if they are given the same canned excuses for why some Korean people don't want to be around them. Most ESL teachers I know may believe this for 6 months to a year but then after that the facade wears off.


I didn't say anything about ethnic profiling in the other thread because at least your intentions were meant well to a degree, but I really hope you don't want to carry that argument over to this thread...
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:


Honestly, man - I think we'd all be better off.

I wouldn't even be wondering what the ethnicity and geographic location of some people were if their posts weren't so far from reality. If a poster doesn't want to be judged based on those factors, then don't publicize them here. Usually people are offering their experience and background to try to give their posts some kind of credibility. Sometimes this backfires and it does the opposite. I guess to prevent this maybe you should encourage people not to post their personal details on here.


Dude, it's because of my expertise with dealing with Koreans that I mention things. When dealing with ESL people and such, Koreans may say something like "No Koreans hanging out with foreigners" but the reason may be because of equal access to English. I know, I've dealt with incidents like that in the past where you actually had to dig to find out the actual reason, not the reason they simply said.

15 years of dealing with Korean people back home AND here have taught me that lesson. I've actually been in situations where we discussed problems and then the Korean person gave an explanation that clearly got lost in translation and came across as potentially offensive.

Quote:
No, the people that actually get treated horribly by their employers or businesses won't be better off when you try to make them feel like it's their fault.


Neither will they be better off it actually IS their fault and you feel that it is inappropriate for people to suggest so because they must be "defending Korea's honor".

Quote:
New people that are thinking of coming to Korea won't be better off if they are given the same canned excuses for why some Korean people don't want to be around them.


Well if you actually did know anything about Korean interactions, you'd understand that they can be incredibly complex and that there are certain distances that exist between people, jealousies that exist, and often strict lines that are drawn.

Have you ever randomly gotten two groups of Koreans from different social strata, geographic regions, educational background, and age and thrown them together? Have you seen how uncomfortable and awkward things can get? You can see it in how full teachers interact with contract teachers, with the administration staff, and with the janitors, even more so outside of work? They may be a little 'cold' to each other outside of work as well, but is this because of racism? If they do it to each other and you as well is it because you are foreign or is it because of something else?

If you want to grasp things, it doesn't directly compare, but something akin to 'Downton Abbey' and Jane Austen and the strict social guidelines and barriers and you begin to get the idea. It's not quite so severe in certain areas, but it is there. Combine this with the fact that leadership and camaraderie elements from the military often trickle into the workplace and you get an idea of things. Look at the organization, hierarchies, and roles of a public school staff- contains elements of military structure.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:


Honestly, man - I think we'd all be better off.

I wouldn't even be wondering what the ethnicity and geographic location of some people were if their posts weren't so far from reality. If a poster doesn't want to be judged based on those factors, then don't publicize them here. Usually people are offering their experience and background to try to give their posts some kind of credibility. Sometimes this backfires and it does the opposite. I guess to prevent this maybe you should encourage people not to post their personal details on here.


Dude, it's because of my expertise with dealing with Koreans that I mention things. When dealing with ESL people and such, Koreans may say something like "No Koreans hanging out with foreigners" but the reason may be because of equal access to English. I know, I've dealt with incidents like that in the past where you actually had to dig to find out the actual reason, not the reason they simply said.

15 years of dealing with Korean people back home AND here have taught me that lesson. I've actually been in situations where we discussed problems and then the Korean person gave an explanation that clearly got lost in translation and came across as potentially offensive.

Quote:
No, the people that actually get treated horribly by their employers or businesses won't be better off when you try to make them feel like it's their fault.


Neither will they be better off it actually IS their fault and you feel that it is inappropriate for people to suggest so because they must be "defending Korea's honor".

Quote:
New people that are thinking of coming to Korea won't be better off if they are given the same canned excuses for why some Korean people don't want to be around them.


Well if you actually did know anything about Korean interactions, you'd understand that they can be incredibly complex and that there are certain distances that exist between people, jealousies that exist, and often strict lines that are drawn.

Have you ever randomly gotten two groups of Koreans from different social strata, geographic regions, educational background, and age and thrown them together? Have you seen how uncomfortable and awkward things can get? You can see it in how full teachers interact with contract teachers, with the administration staff, and with the janitors, even more so outside of work? They may be a little 'cold' to each other outside of work as well, but is this because of racism? If they do it to each other and you as well is it because you are foreign or is it because of something else?

If you want to grasp things, it doesn't directly compare, but something akin to 'Downton Abbey' and Jane Austen and the strict social guidelines and barriers and you begin to get the idea. It's not quite so severe in certain areas, but it is there. Combine this with the fact that leadership and camaraderie elements from the military often trickle into the workplace and you get an idea of things. Look at the organization, hierarchies, and roles of a public school staff- contains elements of military structure.


That's a pretty condescending post. Why do you assume I don't have any experience with any of those things? You really think you are the only one with these experiences? I'm not going to bother answering your survey.

This is the point I am making. You give all your background information in hopes that it will give your posts more validity. Then when someone questions that information and whether or not it actually gives you the insight you think you have you become upset. If you want to talk about things on equal footing then stop trying to trump other posters with your experiences. Just state your opinion and let it stand on it's own. Otherwise I will have no problem being critical of the perspective from which you are giving advice.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:


This is the point I am making. You give all your background information in hopes that it will give your posts more validity. Then when someone questions that information and whether or not it actually gives you the insight you think you have you become upset. If you want to talk about things on equal footing then stop trying to trump other posters with your experiences. Just state your opinion and let it stand on it's own. Otherwise I will have no problem being critical of the perspective from which you are giving advice.


I'm sorry, but your point on another thread was completely about my background and how that made my posts less valid.

Remember, you were the one who brought up my ethnicity and whether or not that made my points valid.

Quote:
Why do you assume I don't have any experience with any of those things? You really think you are the only one with these experiences? I'm not going to bother answering your survey.


The same way you assume I can't possibly understand what non-Asian foreigners go through and any experience with racism they face.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

I'm sorry, but your point on another thread was completely about my background and how that made my posts less valid.

Remember, you were the one who brought up my ethnicity and whether or not that made my points valid.

Quote:
Why do you assume I don't have any experience with any of those things? You really think you are the only one with these experiences? I'm not going to bother answering your survey.


The same way you assume I can't possibly understand what non-Asian foreigners go through and any experience with racism they face.


Yeah that was my point in another thread. This isn't that thread. You put your ethnicity out there, in the future maybe you shouldn't do that. I don't think I am stretching when I say most Koreans take your ethnicity into consideration when they talk to you or see you in a public place.
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