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Israel secretly injected Ethiopian Jew with bith control dru
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chickenpie



Joined: 24 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Israel secretly injected Ethiopian Jew with bith control dru Reply with quote

"Israel has admitted for the first time that it has been giving Ethiopian Jewish immigrants birth-control injections, often without their knowledge or consent.
The government had previously denied the practice but the Israeli Health Ministry’s director-general has now ordered gynaecologists to stop administering the drugs. According a report in Haaretz, suspicions were first raised by an investigative journalist, Gal Gabbay, who interviewed more than 30 women from Ethiopia in an attempt to discover why birth rates in the community had fallen dramatically"

More here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...opian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

Didn't like something that happened in Nazi Germany?

Well done Israel for trying to limit the number of non-white Jews...
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People need to stop pretending that the Israeli government is with God when the reality is the far opposite of that pretentious lie.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:
People need to stop pretending that the Israeli government is with God when the reality is the far opposite of that pretentious lie.

And no matter how many exceptionally poor decisions Israel makes, there will always be politicians in the U.S. who defend it as though it were the 51st State.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee thats funny I didn't hear about this is the New York Times. I wonder why? Must be the Zionist conspiracy has reached into the most reputable paper in the world.

Even if this is somehow true. Isreal with its Zionist lackeys help, the USA, took these Ethiopian Jews into its country who had nothing literally when it could not particularly afford to. Even if it turns out that they surreptitiously gave birth control to the Ethiopians it hardly makes them Nazis. Laughing
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions.

As to your second statement, wow is all I can say. I mean when Uzbekistan does that sort of crap, it is considered a violation of human rights. Yet, Israel gets a pass. I guess those Ethiopians must have deserved it, right?

young_clinton wrote:
Gee thats funny I didn't hear about this is the New York Times. I wonder why? Must be the Zionist conspiracy has reached into the most reputable paper in the world.

Even if this is somehow true. Isreal with its Zionist lackeys help, the USA, took these Ethiopian Jews into its country who had nothing literally when it could not particularly afford to. Even if it turns out that they surreptitiously gave birth control to the Ethiopians it hardly makes them Nazis. Laughing
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:
First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions.



Sure that's what they say about Thailand "The Land of Smiles". Are you acquainted with Thailand and the people there?

Also how does this take away from or have anything to do with the antisemitic nature of this post?
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Konglishman wrote:
First of all, you should not measure a country by only it's wealth. Ethiopia is an incredible place where people derive much of their happiness from spirituality as opposed to material possessions.



Sure that's what they say about Thailand "The Land of Smiles". Are you acquainted with Thailand and the people there?

Also how does this take away from or have anything to do with the antisemitic nature of this post?


In fact, back in 2009, I lived in Chiang Mai for 5 months. Perhaps, you have the image of tourist traps and crass commercialism stuck in your mind. Once you get away from all of that, you will find that Thailand still does have a fair amount of that spiritual aspect left.

Anyways, the obvious argument is that certain sectors of Thailand have been corrupted by money, not by the lack of it. Further, I would hardly say that Ethiopia is in a comparable position with respect to tourism and money. To make such a comparison is a bit ridiculous.
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Also how does this take away from or have anything to do with the antisemitic nature of this post?


You seemed to imply that the Ethiopian Jews should be grateful about leaving Ethiopia. Well, I am disputing that and saying that is a matter of perspective.

Further, I think there is nothing anti-Semitic about expressing concern about maltreatment a dark skinned Jew suffers from a light skinned Jew.

Finally, no one should be considered anti-Semitic if he or she disagrees with certain policies of Israel. Simply put, Israel does not equal Judaism. So, having a problem with Israel, does not mean that one has a problem with Jews or Judaism.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting story, but the article is not entirely clear about the details and timeline.

Quote:
One of the Ethiopian women who was interviewed is quoted as saying: “They [medical staff] told us they are inoculations. We took it every three months. We said we didn’t want to.” It is alleged that some of the women were forced or coerced to take the drug while in transit camps in Ethiopia.



Quote:
Nearly 100,000 Ethiopian Jews have moved to Israel under the Law of Return since the 1980s, but their Jewishness has been questioned by some rabbis. Last year, the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who also holds the health portfolio, warned that illegal immigrants from Africa “threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state”.

Haaretz published an extract from a letter sent by the Ministry of Health to units administering the drug. Doctors were told “not to renew prescriptions for Depo Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment”.



So, was there a continuing program of coercive sterlization underway, started in the camps, and then continued in the doctor's offices in Israel? Or were some women sterilized in the camps, and then some other women just given given the drug by doctors in Israel who neglected to inform them of the "ramifactions of the treatment", but not as part of some centrally directed program, just because they were negligent in their duties?

And what does it mean that they weren't told of the "ramifications of the treatment"? Does that mean they weren't told that it would make them infertile, or that they weren't warned about side effects, or...?

Lots of governments have engaged in coercive reproduction policies and/or eugenics, up until the present day, and I wouldn't put it past the Israelis to do something like that. I'm just wondering if that's what was really going on here, or if it's more a bunch of separate actions, involving various actors, being lumped together by lazy journalists.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper that has been covering this the most extensively, is behind a subscription wall. The Daily Telegraph(which I believe to be strongly pro-Israeli) summarizes one Haaretz writer's view that the charges have been sensationalized...

Quote:
Haaretz says the Ethiopian women were "coaxed" or "strongly convinced" to have the Depo-Provera shot, not forced. The idea that they were given it without their knowledge springs from the testimony of a few women who simply said "they weren't aware the shots were birth control"; that could be down to these individual women's lack of understanding or confusion, says Haaretz, since "the vast majority of the Ethiopian women who received Depo-Provera were aware it was birth control and received it willingly".

As for the claims that Israel is "sterilising" immigrants it doesn't like very much, Haaretz points out that, by definition, an injection whose birth-controlling power lasts only three months is not sterilisation. It also points out that some Ethiopian women continued voluntarily to receive Depo-Provera even once they were settled in Israel, because they "preferred being injected at a clinic rather than having to take pills daily in the presence of other family members who might disapprove of that decision". That is, the injections became culturally convenient for some Ethiopian women in Israel. Haaretz says it is "insulting to these women's intelligence" to suggest they would continue travelling to a clinic in Israel in order to stand in line to be "sterilised", and in truth the drop in the Ethiopian birth rate in Israel that observers fretted over this week is far more likely "attributable to access to birth control that these women wanted.


I suspect it remains the case that black women immigrating from Ethiopia were subjected to a greater degree of "coaxing" and "strong convincing" than were, say, white women immigrating from Europe.

link


Last edited by On the other hand on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I suspect it remains the case that white women immigrating from Ethiopia were subjected to a greater degree of "coaxing" and "strong convincing" than were, say, white women immigrating from Europe.

link


So, these were albino Ethiopian women? Okay, okay, I am just kidding. I know what you meant to say.
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NohopeSeriously



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:
Finally, no one should be considered anti-Semitic if he or she disagrees with certain policies of Israel. Simply put, Israel does not equal Judaism. So, having a problem with Israel, does not mean that one has a problem with Jews or Judaism.


This is true. The only true symbol of old Israelites and modern Jewish people is the Menorah. The Star of David is not a Jewish symbol and it's on the flag of modern Israel. This is a common sense for anyone who has basic knowledge of Abrahamic history.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:
Quote:
I suspect it remains the case that white women immigrating from Ethiopia were subjected to a greater degree of "coaxing" and "strong convincing" than were, say, white women immigrating from Europe.

link


So, these were albino Ethiopian women? Okay, okay, I am just kidding. I know what you meant to say.


Heh. Meant "black" of course. I'll correct it.

Also, given that each dosage of Depo-provera only lasts three months, my use of the word "sterilization" was inaccurate as well. I'll let that stand for the sake of poetic hyperbole.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Also how does this take away from or have anything to do with the antisemitic nature of this post?

Clearly the only way to not be antisemitic is to support the sterilization of Jews, lol. Taking it to a whole new level today, aren't we?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this is what I take away from the discussion so far:

1) Poor Ethiopian immigrants that Israel generously chose to open the door to are strongly encouraged to get short-term birth control shots, perhaps without fully realizing what they're getting.

2) This causes confusion and gives the impression that these people -- people to whom, again, the Israeli government opened its doors of its own free will -- are being oppressed.

3) The Israeli government responds to this by putting out a directive specifically instructing doctors not to give these women birth control shots unless it is absolutely certain they understand what they're getting and want it.

4) Conclusion: Israel is like Nazi Germany.

5) Addendum: Israel is somehow 'wrong with God,' Ethiopians need not be grateful at having received the opportunity to immigrate to prosperous Israel because Ethiopia is rich in vague "spiritual" happiness (whatever that means), and Jews are not allowed to use any sign but the Menora as a symbol of their identity.

Congratulations to OnTheOtherHand for attempting to approach this issue with at least some nuance.
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