Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Listen up kiddies. If it ain't yours don't touch it.
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never been an actual public school teacher, just an after school teacher in public schools... but I was flabbergasted at how they seem like zoos a lot of the time. I'll walk past classrooms where the kids are screaming like crazy, beating each other up, running in and out, and just acting like total maniacs... while the teacher is just sitting there at her computer. I do not remember my elementary school classrooms being like that at all. You could run around and act crazy, but only outside. I've walked past classrooms with total chaos going on and seen the poor teacher just sitting there with her head literally on her desk. I think the problem is that a lot of these crazy moms run the show, pamper their kids or run them to the ground with activities/hagwons, and this is the result. Mom power > teacher power.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
I've never been an actual public school teacher, just an after school teacher in public schools... but I was flabbergasted at how they seem like zoos a lot of the time. I'll walk past classrooms where the kids are screaming like crazy, beating each other up, running in and out, and just acting like total maniacs... while the teacher is just sitting there at her computer. I do not remember my elementary school classrooms being like that at all. You could run around and act crazy, but only outside. I've walked past classrooms with total chaos going on and seen the poor teacher just sitting there with her head literally on her desk. I think the problem is that a lot of these crazy moms run the show, pamper their kids or run them to the ground with activities/hagwons, and this is the result. Mom power > teacher power.


You didnt see it back home because the principal would have teacher's head if they allowed their students to act like that. The Korean principals need to set stricter demands on their teachrs with disciplinary actions to follow if the kids don't shape up to keep order in the classrooms and to provide a suitable learning environment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
silkhighway



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:

You didnt see it back home because the principal would have teacher's head if they allowed their students to act like that. The Korean principals need to set stricter demands on their teachrs with disciplinary actions to follow if the kids don't shape up to keep order in the classrooms and to provide a suitable learning environment.


Haha, I don't know about the back home part. I've worked in lots of different schools and they range from one extreme to the other. The schools (several hagwons and one public school) I've worked at in Korea have all fell somewhere in the middle of that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Threequalseven



Joined: 08 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PREEST wrote:
I think this is really anal and you are expecting all kids to act they way you want or how you did when you grew up. The fact is kids will do things like this. Instead of writing a thread complaining about it, set your boundries and tell your kinds firmly when you think something is inappropriate.
This is probably more an issue of your teaching. You expect eveyone to behave perfectly, when in fact part of a teachers job is to be an example to young kids what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.
If you relate to your kids and know how to assert your authority as a teacher at the right times, you won't have kids touching your things all the time.

Here's another theme common throughout this forum - teachers who say other teachers are bad at their job without actually saying anything helpful. I never understood why it's easier for some people to put down others than it is to give useful advice. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
itiswhatitis



Joined: 08 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience, this is sadly something that you pretty much have to put up with as a foreign teacher here.

You will always be viewed as being an outsider and somewhat of a clown who is suppose to not have feelings.

You can get mad.......this will leave the well behaved students scared and it will likely encourage the trouble makers to get a reaction/cause more trouble.

You can ask a Korean staff member for help......they will be annoyed and it will give the impression that you are not capable of handling your students. If you do this the best you can hope for is a break from the bad behaviour. It will eventually return and likely return even worse, then...guess what...yeap cat and mouse game of asking for help again from a Korean staff member.

My advice: Don't take it personally. They have not been taught proper respect and as an outsider there is very little that you can do to change that. There are many jobs where much worse things could happen to you while on duty.

My little sister was shocked when after a week on the job a grade 5 female student came up behind her and lifted her up. Lucky for her she had been well briefed (by me) on how we are seen by Koreans so she did not get angry at the student. The student viewed her as a clown and was being playful, not necessarily disrespectful and most certainly not threatening. That same student was very upset when it was my sister's last day on the job.

Remember that if there ever is a serious conflict between you and a student that the Korean staff/owners will ultimately pretty much have to side with the student.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threequalseven wrote:
PREEST wrote:
I think this is really anal and you are expecting all kids to act they way you want or how you did when you grew up. The fact is kids will do things like this. Instead of writing a thread complaining about it, set your boundries and tell your kinds firmly when you think something is inappropriate. This is probably more an issue of your teaching. You expect eveyone to behave perfectly, when in fact part of a teachers job is to be an example to young kids what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. If you relate to your kids and know how to assert your authority as a teacher at the right times, you won't have kids touching your things all the time.


Here's another theme common throughout this forum - teachers who say other teachers are bad at their job without actually saying anything helpful. I never understood why it's easier for some people to put down others than it is to give useful advice. Confused


He also contradicts himself. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earlier this month, a 52-year-old female teacher was beaten by one of her students at school. The 14-year-old girl slapped her face and pulled her hair until she was unconscious.

The incident made headlines, throwing a spotlight on rampant but little known violence by students against teachers.

Of 287 complaints from teachers received by the Korean Federation of Teacher’s Association in 2011, almost 40 percent are related to physical or verbal assaults from students or their parents.

The largest teachers’ group in Korea said the number was only the tip of the iceberg.

“We know there are far too many students behaving badly, and even being violent to their teachers,” KFTA spokesman Kim Dong-seok said.

Not so long ago, with its long Confucian roots, respecting teachers and cherishing virtues were traditionally considered the core of Korean education. But that does not hold true any more, and an increasing number of teachers now complain how disrespect had become a fact of life in many schools.

“People often underestimate that young children can be as violent and intimidating as the older ones,” the Guri teacher said, noting that her and other members of her teaching staff are often verbally and physically assaulted by their students.

In 2011, more than 4,200 teachers took early retirement, up from 3,660 in 2010. So far this year, more than 3,500 teachers have said they will voluntarily retire, according to the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology.

Another survey from the KFTA explains the reason. The teachers’ association last year surveyed 201 voluntarily-retired teachers.

In the survey, more that 80 percent cited worsened student behavior as the main reason for leaving work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Yes, things have changed for the worse. Mainly down to the sentimentalists view that 'kids are kids' and should have a free rein in their surroundings, learn through exploration etc...without being told not to do stuff. The fact that a modern teacher is being told by everyone that it is his fault and he should lock his belongings away in the classroom is a sad reminder of the way things have deteriorated. I imagine if a kid stole some of the belongings from an unlocked drawer the reaction would also be that it was the teacher's 'fault' - never the kid's responsibility.


I think it is a bit more complex than that honestly. Some things have deteriorated, others have improved. My son's teacher is not told it is her fault and that she should lock her personnal effects...she chose to do so because she wished to create a certain learning environment in her class. Frankly speaking, having observed a few lessons, her students are thriving with her. My son is learning and engaged with the lessons.

I personally never brought personnal items to class when I worked in an Ontario Public School. I left my personnal things in the teachers lounge. All I brought to class was my course material, a water bottle.

I do agree the system has deteriorated in some ways, namely with respect towards the teachers and with schools pandering to parents who raise their kids like they are the kings and queens of the universe! In High School it is worse. The number of burnouts has risen steadily in schools in Canada. Teachers simply run out of steam in certain schools.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threequalseven wrote:
I can relate to the OP. I was typing on my laptop one day as my students started coming in my room (maybe 6 minutes before class). Suddenly, one of the kids grabbed my monitor and wrenched it down real fast, so it was almost at a 180º angle. I was shocked. Like the OP, I come from an upbringing where that kind of behavior would get you suspended from school. Sure, "kids are kids." But kids who are never taught boundaries are kids that don't have any limits. I don't think it's inevitable that young people automatically act this way.

Like one of the other posters said about the girl drawing on the wall, I really think that some of these kids just don't factor in (or even have any) consequences of their actions. I see it in other ways too, not just in my classroom: torn posters in the hallway, empty ramen wrappers and spilled milk cartons in the elevator, etc.

As for all these macho comments saying "lock it up", that's nice and cute and all - if there's anywhere to actually lock your stuff. However, there are some alternatives. When I started, I always got annoyed at students when they'd make a mad-dash for the board markers and start scribbling all over the board, draining all my ink. I've since situated my desk and all my stuff in one corner so they'd have to get past me first. Since then, the students have gradually stopped racing for the markers, and after a month they stopped that behavior altogether.


Welcome to Korea. Kids are spoiled nowadays and never scolded by most parents. They are afraid their kids will have low self esteem or something like that. (This according to my co teacher. I tried to tell her they're making a huge mistake and it'll come back to bite them in the a^&* in another 10 to 15 years.) Anyhew, there you have it. Take it or leave. Just go with the flow and keep valuable things out of sight or locked up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, everyone needs to have a little bit of lower self esteem if it keeps them humble, out of trouble, and employed. (Just not too much, I guess.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

itiswhatitis wrote:
From my experience, this is sadly something that you pretty much have to put up with as a foreign teacher here.

You will always be viewed as being an outsider and somewhat of a clown who is suppose to not have feelings.

You can get mad.......this will leave the well behaved students scared and it will likely encourage the trouble makers to get a reaction/cause more trouble.

You can ask a Korean staff member for help......they will be annoyed and it will give the impression that you are not capable of handling your students. If you do this the best you can hope for is a break from the bad behaviour. It will eventually return and likely return even worse, then...guess what...yeap cat and mouse game of asking for help again from a Korean staff member.

My advice: Don't take it personally. They have not been taught proper respect and as an outsider there is very little that you can do to change that. There are many jobs where much worse things could happen to you while on duty.

My little sister was shocked when after a week on the job a grade 5 female student came up behind her and lifted her up. Lucky for her she had been well briefed (by me) on how we are seen by Koreans so she did not get angry at the student. The student viewed her as a clown and was being playful, not necessarily disrespectful and most certainly not threatening. That same student was very upset when it was my sister's last day on the job.

Remember that if there ever is a serious conflict between you and a student that the Korean staff/owners will ultimately pretty much have to side with the student.


Reminds me of this strapping tall, strong, and broad shouldered grade 3 middle school boy reach his arms down around me and pick me up off the floor into the air. I'm average height and he was 6 ft something. (Big for his age, I guess.) Anyways, I lift weights and reached down under his hind legs and picked him up into the air afterwards. He sure wasn't expecting that. The girls was trying to impress failed miserably. I sure showed him. I see him around my area every now and then and he's actually always happy to see me. He might be grade 2 or 3 high school now. (Hasn't gotten any bigger thank goodness. lol).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PREEST



Joined: 20 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threequalseven wrote:
PREEST wrote:
I think this is really anal and you are expecting all kids to act they way you want or how you did when you grew up. The fact is kids will do things like this. Instead of writing a thread complaining about it, set your boundries and tell your kinds firmly when you think something is inappropriate.
This is probably more an issue of your teaching. You expect eveyone to behave perfectly, when in fact part of a teachers job is to be an example to young kids what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.
If you relate to your kids and know how to assert your authority as a teacher at the right times, you won't have kids touching your things all the time.

Here's another theme common throughout this forum - teachers who say other teachers are bad at their job without actually saying anything helpful. I never understood why it's easier for some people to put down others than it is to give useful advice. Confused


A teacher demonstrates and examples what is good behaviour anf what is not. Students have to be disciplined and made aware of what is appropriate behaviour. You can't walk into a class and expect the students to act like you imagined they would. This the point I am making. You have to set your rules from the very begining and assert yourself as the teacher and that you will not accept any nonsense. Writing a thread complaining about somethibg that needs to be accomplished in the classroom won't help matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PREEST



Joined: 20 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threequalseven wrote:
PREEST wrote:
I think this is really anal and you are expecting all kids to act they way you want or how you did when you grew up. The fact is kids will do things like this. Instead of writing a thread complaining about it, set your boundries and tell your kinds firmly when you think something is inappropriate.
This is probably more an issue of your teaching. You expect eveyone to behave perfectly, when in fact part of a teachers job is to be an example to young kids what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.
If you relate to your kids and know how to assert your authority as a teacher at the right times, you won't have kids touching your things all the time.

Here's another theme common throughout this forum - teachers who say other teachers are bad at their job without actually saying anything helpful. I never understood why it's easier for some people to put down others than it is to give useful advice. Confused


A teacher demonstrates and examples what is good behaviour and what is not. Students have to be disciplined and made aware of what is appropriate behaviour. You can't walk into a class and expect the students to act like you imagined they would. This is the point I am making. You have to set your rules from the very begining and assert yourself as the teacher and that you will not accept any nonsense. Writing a thread complaining about somethibg that needs to be accomplished in the classroom won't help matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International