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Koreans Out Of Their Usual Element Ignoring You
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.


Then wouldn't that logically infer that all of the non-Korean people here talking about the Korean mindset, their motivations, and their experience, that their opinions are less valid than mine?

By your very own logic, my opinions regarding the Korean boss' motives are more valid than yours. Therefore, may I ask, why are you doubting and arguing with me in regards to the motivations of the Koreans? Doesn't that infer that your opinions regarding the motivations of Koreans in this case are less valid than mine?

I think the above is rubbish. But according to your 'rules' it's not.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the tricky thing about skin color being attached to worth - it's usually more easily applied in the negative.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.


Then wouldn't that logically infer that all of the non-Korean people here talking about the Korean mindset, their motivations, and their experience, that their opinions are less valid than mine?

By your very own logic, my opinions regarding the Korean boss' motives are more valid than yours. Therefore, may I ask, why are you doubting and arguing with me in regards to the motivations of the Koreans? Doesn't that infer that your opinions regarding the motivations of Koreans in this case are less valid than mine?

I think the above is rubbish. But according to your 'rules' it's not.


No, unlike the owner of the hakwon you are were adopted and grew up in the USA. You don't know what it is like to grow up as a Korean in Korea, unless there is some part of your life that I am missing here. I would say as far as speculating about why a local Korean is behaving the way they are, we are both on equal footing. I would consider a local Korean person more of an authority on why a Korean person is behaving the way they do than either of us. When it comes to defining what it is like to be a white person living in Korea, my account has more validity than yours does. When it comes to what it is like being an adopted Korean, or maybe even a kyopo I think your account has more validity than mine or that of a Korean person.

Does this mean that if a Korean person says "I did x because of y" and I say "No, you did x because of z" and you say "no, he did x because of a"...that the Korean person is automatically right? No, it doesn't. Because som e people are liars. I just notice that you are constantly describing the actions and motivations of white people that live here when you really have no idea what it is like for us to live here. When it comes to how we perceive Korea you offer an opinion that relies on insight you don't have. It wouldn't be so annoying if you weren't so condescending and self righteous.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.

Soooo... can a "White" guy chime in on this and agree with SR, or do I need to go through some sort of pigment test?

Wink


I think you will be required to take a pigment test, a blood test and a caucasian fidelity test. Otherwise you are OBVIOUSLY Korean (meant as some form of insult).

Good luck Capt.


Well as far as I know Steelrails looks Korean so he would not encounter the same type of reaction as a non-ethnic Korean would on a daily basis, and PatrickGHBusan lives in Canada and visits Korea 2 or 3 times a year. Being married to a Korean woman in Canada is not the same as living as a single foreign white male in Korea. Even if you lived here in the past, times change. I don't think either of you really know what most of the foreigners on here are talking about in your posts and it shows. Captain Corea, if you are a white foreigner that has been living in Korea for a while now then, yeah, I value your opinion. Are you an ESL teacher Captain Corea? I kind of remember reading that your job doesn't involve ESL anymore or something but I could be mistaken.
I'm not saying that you can't be right about our experience here. I'm just saying you might want to take a closer look before you judge people the way you do. Given the "I know everything" approach to SR posts I can't help but knock him for talking about something he will never have a full understanding of. To me it's not different than a white person in Korea lecturing a black person about their experience. We can relate to an extent, but then there are some things we just can't grasp. When I read SR posts he seems oblivious to this reality.

I find it funny you bring up some kind of pigmentation test that is necessary when SR is the one that is openly praising the merits of segregating a workplace. SR is advocating a work atmosphere where Koreans cannot socialize with non-Koreans, is that what you agree with Captain Corea? What about you PatrickGHBusan? It sounds like you are the people who would be in favor of a pigmentation test here.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, unlike the owner of the hakwon you are were adopted and grew up in the USA. You don't know what it is like to grow up as a Korean in Korea, unless there is some part of your life that I am missing here. I would say as far as speculating about why a local Korean is behaving the way they are, we are both on equal footing. I would consider a local Korean person more of an authority on why a Korean person is behaving the way they do than either of us. When it comes to defining what it is like to be a white person living in Korea, my account has more validity than yours does. When it comes to what it is like being an adopted Korean, or maybe even a kyopo I think your account has more validity than mine or that of a Korean person.


I could say that as someone who had extensive dealings with the Korean community (10+ years experience prior to coming here) and also the Korean ESL industry back home prior to ever coming over here that my opinions are automatically more valid than yours.

Notice how I don't put ethnicity into this, but rather actual experience. But I don't think that even my experience makes me automatically right.

Quote:
I just notice that you are constantly describing the actions and motivations of white people that live here when you really have no idea what it is like for us to live here.


Do you really think I have NO idea what it's like? Then I can say you have NO idea what it's like for Koreans living in Korea and therefore anything you say regarding them is complete rubbish.

By your own standards you have NO idea what was, and is, going through Korean people's heads in this situation or any other.

Quote:
When I read SR posts he seems oblivious to this reality.


Plenty of white guys have been able to navigate the landmines of Korea and do fine, some encounter different things than I do, and I get some things that are harsher than they do. But I think that we have much more in common as NET foreigners than is different. What makes us similar far outweighs what makes us different.

Quote:
SR is advocating a work atmosphere where Koreans cannot socialize with non-Koreans


WRONG. Stop saying that. It is factually incorrect. I do not advocate workplace socialization bans based on race. I do accept that employers may have a justifiable interest in terms of workplace equality and opportunity in regards to English education access.

English Conversation is a 'commodity' (people pay money for English conversation practice, that makes it a commodity) as well as workplace skill that needs workplace training and can lead to workplace advancement.

If one group of Korean employees is getting access to this commodity and training for free, and another is not and they are of equal job title, then this creates an issue of fair access in the workplace. Without fair and equal access the employer potentially has justification in enacting such a ban.

Remember we are not just "foreigners", we are also Native English Speakers and possess a skill and commodity.

If you cannot understand the significance of what I'm saying, I'm sorry, but it is a very critical point and a very essential one to understand.

You do realize that if a boss were to allow such a situation to arise and continue after it being brought to his attention by an employee, that employee could potentially sue him for unfair work practices, right?

============================================

Regardless, I think this "You're Korean/white/black/whatever" so your opinion is less valid nonsense needs to end to the point where I'm strongly considering posting about this to the Mods and asking for an amendment to the TOS. I have only once contacted the Mods in my 4 years on here, and this may have to be my next time. I believe that declaring people's opinions valid or invalid bases solely on their race, rather than their experience or knowledge is inappropriate.

Obviously there needs to be a fine line. One should be able to question people's expertise. For example an American talking about life in England, who has never lived there nor is British, should certainly be able to be doubted.

I think the line should be this, using the above scenario.

WRONG: You're an American, your opinions about England and British people aren't valid.
RIGHT: You have no experience living in England and no experience with, or knowledge of British culture, your opinion doesn't hold weight.

Please let knowledge, experience, education, and the validity of the argument be the criteria by which we judge someone's opinion on something, not their ethnicity.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Steelrails"]
Quote:


Please let knowledge, experience, education, and the validity of the argument be the criteria by which we judge someone's opinion on something, not their ethnicity.


That is exactly what I am doing. EXPERIENCE plays a big part in the level of advice someone can give. Report this to the mods? How am I being disrespectful here? Don't be so sensitive, you can say what you want, and I can question it here. Someone saying, "well as an ESL teacher with XXX years teaching in Korea, I think blah blah blah". We can choose to believe or not believe they are who they say they are, but it is good to know where someone is coming from when they offer their opinion. If you are offering your opinion to a Pakistani that is thinking of moving to Itaewon for a year, and he asks how he will be treated as a Pakistani, do you really think whether or not you are Pakistani is relevant? I do. I think it is fair for that person to inquire as to what race you are and how you would know what the treatment he would receive would be. I also think a Pakistani person would be able to provide better insight and advice.

You have lived in Korea long enough to know that workplaces here consider appearance very important. I think if the forum is going to offer useful advice to people this has to be taken into consideration. I don't like it but there isn't much I can do to change that.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:
SR is advocating a work atmosphere where Koreans cannot socialize with non-Koreans


WRONG. Stop saying that. It is factually incorrect. I do not advocate workplace socialization bans based on race. I do accept that employers may have a justifiable interest in terms of workplace equality and opportunity in regards to English education access.




FACT: The scenario we were discussing was one in which a hakwon owner said that his non-Korean employees were not allowed to socialize with his Korean employees.

THAT IS THE FACT. How can I possibly be wrong when that is the blanket policy?
You really aren't grasping that they are being seperated based on race, which is racial segregation. If it was based on english level, then some Korean teachers would be separated from others based on their english level as well. The policy is not that "native speakers" cannot hang out with "non-native speakers". The policy is that non-korean employees cannot hang out with korean employees.

FACT: You are wasting a lot of time defending segregation. Congratulations on that.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Report this to the mods?


You really have trouble reading and understanding the significance of certain things.

I am not "reporting you". You haven't violated any TOS as far as I understand them. I am considering whether or not to ask them to mull over changing the TOS.

As for your Pakistani example, I think this differs in that the OP is soliciting advice from a specific group, rather than offering an opinion. The OP in this thread didn't say that he was seeking answers only from caucasians. Dave's has allowed this and taken strict action by the mods in the case of women seeking advice about women's issues in Korea, or people of faith seeking information and advice about where to find religious organizations and such.

I feel that Dave's ESL cafe should be a place where people of all ethnicities can post about working and living in Korea without fear of having their posts dismissed solely on the basis of their ethnicity. Failing to prevent this could result in a toxic atmosphere that would might lead posters, particularly minority posters (minority as in 'back home' minorities), to be reluctant to post here as their opinions could be dismissed by whoever would constitute the majority. At the same time we should make sure to preserve some mechanism and standard by which people are able to weigh the content of a post in a practical manner.

"You're [insert ethnicity], your opinion isn't valid" really shouldn't have a place here.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Report this to the mods?




I feel that Dave's ESL cafe should be a place where people of all ethnicities can post about working and living in Korea without fear of having their posts dismissed solely on the basis of their ethnicity. Failing to prevent this could result in a toxic atmosphere that would might lead posters, particularly minority posters (minority as in 'back home' minorities), to be reluctant to post here as their opinions could be dismissed by whoever would constitute the majority. At the same time we should make sure to preserve some mechanism and standard by which people are able to weigh the content of a post in a practical manner.

"You're [insert ethnicity], your opinion isn't valid" really shouldn't have a place here.


I agree, so try not to create a toxic atmosphere by calling people "butthurt" next time they ask for advice or want to vent about something that makes them uncomfortable here. Especially, if your experience here is different than theirs.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Report this to the mods?




I feel that Dave's ESL cafe should be a place where people of all ethnicities can post about working and living in Korea without fear of having their posts dismissed solely on the basis of their ethnicity. Failing to prevent this could result in a toxic atmosphere that would might lead posters, particularly minority posters (minority as in 'back home' minorities), to be reluctant to post here as their opinions could be dismissed by whoever would constitute the majority. At the same time we should make sure to preserve some mechanism and standard by which people are able to weigh the content of a post in a practical manner.

"You're [insert ethnicity], your opinion isn't valid" really shouldn't have a place here.


I agree, so try not to create a toxic atmosphere by calling people "butthurt" next time they ask for advice or want to vent about something that makes them uncomfortable here. Especially, if your experience here is different than theirs.


I addressed a specific group of people as butthurt- People who expect everyone to be their friend and get butthurt when people aren't, here or back home.

As for 'venting', I'm fine with venting. Just as long as we can agree that Korean netizens who go on about the foibles of foreigners are just 'venting'. The folks at Koreasentry are just 'venting'. Actually, check that, I'm not fine with the things either of those groups say and I'm not fine with much of what passes for 'venting' here.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Captain Corea, if you are a white foreigner that has been living in Korea for a while now then, yeah, I value your opinion. Are you an ESL teacher Captain Corea? I kind of remember reading that your job doesn't involve ESL anymore or something but I could be mistaken.
I'm not saying that you can't be right about our experience here. I'm just saying you might want to take a closer look before you judge people the way you do. Given the "I know everything" approach to SR posts I can't help but knock him for talking about something he will never have a full understanding of. To me it's not different than a white person in Korea lecturing a black person about their experience. We can relate to an extent, but then there are some things we just can't grasp. When I read SR posts he seems oblivious to this reality.

I find it funny you bring up some kind of pigmentation test that is necessary when SR is the one that is openly praising the merits of segregating a workplace. SR is advocating a work atmosphere where Koreans cannot socialize with non-Koreans, is that what you agree with Captain Corea? What about you PatrickGHBusan? It sounds like you are the people who would be in favor of a pigmentation test here.


No, I would not advocate such a policy. I disagree with it.

What I do agree with is that it is VERY possible that it's not "A Korean thing" to ignore someone out of the usual element. Is that not what this thread is all about?

I think it's a personal choice - one that I've made on occasion. And it's one I've seen both here in Korea, and back in Canada.

And, not that it matters a whole heck of a lot on this specific subject, but I'm in my 12th year here, and I've done all sorts of work. Oh, and I'm white.. well, slightly tan now because i just got back from Manila - but Seoul has a way of making me very pale, very fast. lol

((But to be clear, I don't think I needed to be White to hold that opinion.
I'm not looking for a massive fight on this, but I just hate to see race come into this. There are posters on here that I think are complete tools. Some that are famously... trollish. But no one mentions jack if they're thought to be White. A famous "Dr" on this board is routinely trounced... yet no one pulls out the "You're White" card. IMO, if an argument is weak/bad/sad - call it out for what it is. Leave the race baiting for StormFront and KoreaSentry)))
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:


FACT: The scenario we were discussing was one in which a hakwon owner said that his non-Korean employees were not allowed to socialize with his Korean employees.


Did this extend to Korean-Americans?

Quote:
THAT IS THE FACT. How can I possibly be wrong when that is the blanket policy?


Because you are taking the words at face value and not allowing for things like gaps in translation or failure to properly verify his intent.

His intent may have been to prevent unfair access to English conversation, he may have expressed it with the simplistic Koreans/Non-Koreans.

Quote:
If it was based on english level, then some Korean teachers would be separated from others based on their english level as well.


No, the non-Koreans are native speakers. The Koreans are not.

Quote:
The policy is not that "native speakers" cannot hang out with "non-native speakers". The policy is that non-korean employees cannot hang out with korean employees.


The intent may be related to English level or other matters, the way it is expressed may come off as non-Koreans and Koreans. Koreans aren't as used to the PC-sensitivity culture as we are and consequently, may not grasp the need to be very specific and distinct when making a policy like that.

The boss might have the expectation that you understand his motives and meaning when he tells you something and he may not feel it is vital for him to make a distinction. Remember, in Korea, it is the responsibility to a greater degree, of the listener to grasp distinctions in conversation through tone and such, not the speaker.

Quote:
FACT: You are wasting a lot of time defending segregation. Congratulations on that.


Fact: You are putting words in my mouth.

Stop it. I support the right of an employer to ensure fair access to work-related educational opportunities and to prevent cliques and workplace favoritism to arise.

I do not support race-based segregation. What I am doing is suggesting an alternative reason. It's called cultural context and understanding things don't work out perfectly in translation.

Someone in the US says 'colored' are they racist? Quite likely. Someone from S.Africa says 'colored' are they racist? You have no clue. Similarly, you can't be certain that when a Korean boss says "No non-Koreans and Koreans" that what they mean is race based and not language based.

But stop saying I support racial segregation because that is factually incorrect, nowhere in my posts have I endorsed. My support of the owner's policy is solely contingent upon his policy being motivated by English access (or other non-racial factors), not racial motives.

Considering the difficulty you have grasping some of the distinctions I make in my posts, your assigning various beliefs to me which do not exist, and your tendency to dismiss certain sentences I write, which are critical to my point of view, I find the odds increasing that you might have erred in interpreting that hagwon boss' motives. Slow down and read carefully and listen carefully to what people are saying. Don't dismiss certain words or sentences they put in. They might be very critical and not superfluous.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

But stop saying I support racial segregation because that is factually incorrect, nowhere in my posts have I endorsed. My support of the owner's policy is solely contingent upon his policy being motivated by English access (or other non-racial factors), not racial motives.

Considering the difficulty you have grasping some of the distinctions I make in my posts, your assigning various beliefs to me which do not exist, and your tendency to dismiss certain sentences I write, which are critical to my point of view, I find the odds increasing that you might have erred in interpreting that hagwon boss' motives. Slow down and read carefully and listen carefully to what people are saying. Don't dismiss certain words or sentences they put in. They might be very critical and not superfluous.


You haven't met the owner of the hakwon, you haven't met the workers at the hakwon, and you haven't met the students, and you don't even know where it is. Yet you are telling me I am dismissing words in this policy. This is where you become very condescending. Believe me, I am capable of discerning what his intentions are and it isn't a secret why this policy is in place at the hakwon. All of the workers know it is a race based xenophobic policy. I have personal experience in this situation, you don't. It's amazing you still think you are more knowledgeable about it than I am. You don't even know the name of the guy we are talking about right now. Who is stereotyping whom here? You are telling me to "slow down and read carefully and listen carefully" you haven't even seen the policy in writing or heard it. Seriously, look in the mirror before you accuse someone of erroneously interpreting someone's motives.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Captain Corea, if you are a white foreigner that has been living in Korea for a while now then, yeah, I value your opinion. Are you an ESL teacher Captain Corea? I kind of remember reading that your job doesn't involve ESL anymore or something but I could be mistaken.
I'm not saying that you can't be right about our experience here. I'm just saying you might want to take a closer look before you judge people the way you do. Given the "I know everything" approach to SR posts I can't help but knock him for talking about something he will never have a full understanding of. To me it's not different than a white person in Korea lecturing a black person about their experience. We can relate to an extent, but then there are some things we just can't grasp. When I read SR posts he seems oblivious to this reality.

I find it funny you bring up some kind of pigmentation test that is necessary when SR is the one that is openly praising the merits of segregating a workplace. SR is advocating a work atmosphere where Koreans cannot socialize with non-Koreans, is that what you agree with Captain Corea? What about you PatrickGHBusan? It sounds like you are the people who would be in favor of a pigmentation test here.


No, I would not advocate such a policy. I disagree with it.

What I do agree with is that it is VERY possible that it's not "A Korean thing" to ignore someone out of the usual element. Is that not what this thread is all about?

I think it's a personal choice - one that I've made on occasion. And it's one I've seen both here in Korea, and back in Canada.

And, not that it matters a whole heck of a lot on this specific subject, but I'm in my 12th year here, and I've done all sorts of work. Oh, and I'm white.. well, slightly tan now because i just got back from Manila - but Seoul has a way of making me very pale, very fast. lol

((But to be clear, I don't think I needed to be White to hold that opinion.
I'm not looking for a massive fight on this, but I just hate to see race come into this. There are posters on here that I think are complete tools. Some that are famously... trollish. But no one mentions jack if they're thought to be White. A famous "Dr" on this board is routinely trounced... yet no one pulls out the "You're White" card. IMO, if an argument is weak/bad/sad - call it out for what it is. Leave the race baiting for StormFront and KoreaSentry)))


If a question such as OPs is asked then race does play a part. I don't like getting into either, but the nature of Steelrails post are so condescending and all-knowing I think people should understand what the basis of his perspective is. Like I said, if there was a specific thread about the black experience in South Korea and I decided to jump on it and called the black people "butthurt" and told them if they don't like it they can go home, I think I would be out of line because I am white. I don't know their situation as well as they do.

The racial segregation policy was relevant because some people brought up being ignored by their coworkers. It was implied by other posters maybe it was because of their hygiene, their posture, etc. I think it was relevant that I know of at least 2 hakwons where the workers are literally segregated based on their race outside of work. In this case the people outside of work are ignoring the NET's because it is company policy. It's an explanation that may allow NET's to be less paranoid and stop trying to "fix" themselves in whatever way Steelrails recommended. It's one thing to acknowledge you are subjected to a racist policy and then get on with your life. It is another thing to be subjected to a racist policy and have people tell you that it's YOUR fault because you are a dirty, smelly, uncouth person. People need to realize in these situations they are not the problem. I had this situation at a public school, and it was a mystery to me until a KT explained it to me. Yes, it was a racist situation. My situation became a lot better once I knew I wasn't the problem and I got on with my life.

I just want to make it clear I feel very little discrimination as a white person here and I'm not trying to label the entire country racist. I just get irritated when some people refuse to acknowledge racism when it is obvious.

People read this forum to figure out what their experience in Korea might be if they come here to work. I read it before I came here and learned a lot. I think it's deceitful to give the impression that a person of non-korean ethnicity will never end up in a workplace where they are isolated because of their race. It happened to me one year I was here and I know a looooot of other people who were outcasts because they weren't Korean. It's just one of the realities of working here sometimes.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps we're reading a different OP, man.

metalhead wrote:
I'm curious why some Koreans that you know, that you see on a daily basis, be it in the classroom, the 'bakery', the store -whatevs - totally ignore you when they see you passing by them on the street. Then, for example, the next day, treat you as usual (like, saying hello to you) when they see you back in their little shop.

Is it a culture thing? I swear I've made full-blown eye contact with them and they just look away (cue for someone to mention that I *obviously* was not wearing a suit and tie, how droll).

Is it a Confucius thing? The Taiwanese and Chinese don't do it, just wondering why a lot of (see, added the quantifier so no one gets angry) Koreans do.


I see this, and it doesn't say anything about racial segregation. It asks about "people not saying HI out of the usual element" - something I've seen both here and in Canada.

I think this can be observed, or not observed, by people of any ethnicity.

Or are you saying "only ____" ethnicity has this happen to them here?


---

Your issue about segregation in hogwons is a tad different. I think what bothers you is SR apparently not "admitting" that it occurs. For you, that places the blame on the teacher - who usually didn't know what's going on. SR sees it as - maybe there are reasons for it that are not totally race related... and he's got a point - but it's a thin one.

Neither of you are WRONG... but you're just going around talking in circles without wanting to acknowledge each other's points.
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