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Koreans Out Of Their Usual Element Ignoring You
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh yeah, and he also supports segregation...lol.


No, I support equal opportunity and advancement for all. If some employees are given the opportunity to improve their relevant work skills for free, but others aren't and this is part of a social group, I as boss, would move to disrupt it.

I say this because I speak from experience in having to manage people. Workplaces inevitably form cliques. Employees in cliques tend to favor each other, often to the unfair detriment of other employees and to the detriment of the store as a whole.

As a manager you have to ensure fairness in the workplace. If an employee formally complains to you, you have to act.

The thing is my "fantasy" scenario, isn't fantasy, it's reality. The groups involved may change, but the story is still the same. I've dealt with multiple versions of it. And people will yell and scream that whatever action you took was racist or sexist or unfair or blah blah blah. All the while, you as boss, were doing your utmost to ensure a fair working environment.

Quote:
that they are "butthurt" if they start talking to me about some form of discrimination they are facing here


They aren't facing discrimination. People not saying "hi" to you in the citrus aisle isn't discrimination. First, we don't know why. Second, you have no right to people saying "hi" to you and being your friend.

If you are upset because everyone here doesn't love you, and everyone at work isn't your friend, then yes, you are "butthurt". Your co-workers are your colleagues, not your friends. Anything more than that is up to each of you and not to be expected, but appreciated.

To top it off, complaining 3 months later that no one will leave you alone on the street or complaining about Koreans wanting to drink soju with you and sliding over to your bar table, yes that does make one "butthurt" and 'arbitrary'.

With the "butthurt" comment, as I think I alluded to in the original "butthurt" post, this was more an allusion to Millenials, particularly Americans, who have been raised with this mindset that everyone should love them and be their friend automatically. The blast was more generational. Sorry, but my mental image for "butt hurt" isn't some 50 year old NET, it's some 24 year old complaining that everyone isn't totally into them and loves whatever band they love and doesn't care about their poetry.

Quote:
but I don't think an ethnic Korean can have as much insight about my life here as SR claims to have


I'm not basing your experience compared to mine, I'm comparing yours to what other non-Korean NETs go through.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Oh yeah, and he also supports segregation...lol.


No, I support equal opportunity and advancement for all. If some employees are given the opportunity to improve their relevant work skills for free, but others aren't and this is part of a social group, I as boss, would move to disrupt it.



What you are talking about is networking and it happens in every workplace. I have worked in management too and I never dreamed of separating my employees after work based on their race. Note the hakwon owners don't separate the Koreans based on their english ability, nor does he try to prevent the formation of exclusively korean cliques or exclusive NET cliques. In fact, by segregating his employees he is creating two distinct cliques in his workplace, Korean and NET. This leads to distrust and the belief that there is an "us and them". I believe that is the owners goal.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Steelrails"]
Quote:

Quote:
that they are "butthurt" if they start talking to me about some form of discrimination they are facing here


They aren't facing discrimination. People not saying "hi" to you in the citrus aisle isn't discrimination. First, we don't know why. Second, you have no right to people saying "hi" to you and being your friend.

If you are upset because everyone here doesn't love you, and everyone at work isn't your friend, then yes, you are "butthurt". Your co-workers are your colleagues, not your friends. Anything more than that is up to each of you and not to be expected, but appreciated.

To top it off, complaining 3 months later that no one will leave you alone on the street or complaining about Koreans wanting to drink soju with you and sliding over to your bar table, yes that does make one "butthurt" and 'arbitrary'.

With the "butthurt" comment, as I think I alluded to in the original "butthurt" post, this was more an allusion to Millenials, particularly Americans, who have been raised with this mindset that everyone should love them and be their friend automatically. The blast was more generational. Sorry, but my mental image for "butt hurt" isn't some 50 year old NET, it's some 24 year old complaining that everyone isn't totally into them and loves whatever band they love and doesn't care about their poetry.

Quote:
but I don't think an ethnic Korean can have as much insight about my life here as SR claims to have


I'm not basing your experience compared to mine, I'm comparing yours to what other non-Korean NETs go through.


No read your above comments. Your opinions are based on speculation and your perception of NETs that are not ethnically Korean, you are ethnically Korean so I don't think you have the type of insight necessary to call us "butthurt". Not only that, but you place all the negative traits of NET's on any non-korean person that posts here. OP asks why he is being ignored, other people complain they are ignored too...and all of a sudden all of these people must be the worst case scenario NETs that complain about deskwarming and ajossis coming to their table at a bar. Try to address the issue at hand so OP can learn something and deal with the situation instead of going on a rant about how spoiled NET's are and how NET's complain about deskwarming. Believe me, I hear that everyday. You need to stop stereotyping every foreigner that has an issue here. We are not all the same.

And yes, I understand you know how to use the convenient disclaimer "maybe".
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked in a grocery store back home for years.

Years.

Knew many of the regulars. Often chatted with them in the isles.

Can't say I ever wanted to chat with them outside the store though.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Oh yeah, and he also supports segregation...lol.


No, I support equal opportunity and advancement for all. If some employees are given the opportunity to improve their relevant work skills for free, but others aren't and this is part of a social group, I as boss, would move to disrupt it.



What you are talking about is networking and it happens in every workplace. I have worked in management too and I never dreamed of separating my employees after work based on their race. Note the hakwon owners don't separate the Koreans based on their english ability, nor does he try to prevent the formation of exclusively korean cliques or exclusive NET cliques. In fact, by segregating his employees he is creating two distinct cliques in his workplace, Korean and NET. This leads to distrust and the belief that there is an "us and them". I believe that is the owners goal.


But was he separating them based on race or based on them being native speakers? Were there any Korean-American native speakers included?

If he was separating them based on race, then that's racist. If he's doing it because they are native speakers and the unfair advantage that may incur, then that is a legitimate workplace issue. It's difficult because native speaking and race can be tied together, and the fact that your industry and workplace skills are centered around English.

Quote:
Your opinions are based on speculation and your perception of NETs that are not ethnically Korean, you are ethnically Korean so I don't think you have the type of insight necessary to call us "butthurt"


So someone who has grown up and lived their entire life in America lacks the necessary insight to comment on what NET's perceive? Again, as I alluded too several pages ago, this has a lot to do with the Milleniall mindset of entitlement, and the overly sensitive PC culture, something that has been written about ad nausem back home.

Funny though, for all the griping about me not being able to have proper insight, you don't seem to have any problem talking about what the Koreans are thinking in this incident and declaring what their motives are.

I could turn around and say, you are ethnically American/British/etc., so you don't have the type of insight necessary to call the Koreans "racist" or to speculate on their motives. But that wouldn't be wrong to say. I think you do have some insight, and I think the amount of insight I have on the Western experience certainly trumps the amount of insight you have on the Korean experience.

But either way both you and I should be able to comment and speculate without having to worry about people saying "You are ethnically ____, your opinion doesn't count as much." That's ridiculous both ways. I support your right to speculate on Korean motives and the fact that you might have insights, regardless of ethnicity. Please show the same to me.

You accuse me of supporting segregation and then you turn around and say my insights aren't as valid because of my ethnicity. Nice.

Quote:
You need to stop stereotyping every foreigner that has an issue here.


Quote:
And yes, I understand you know how to use the convenient disclaimer "maybe".


That's not convenient, that's significant. Have you ever noticed that I don't take issues with posters who bring up Korean issues but use disclaimers?

Quote:
necessary to call us "butthurt"


Yes, expecting co-workers to be your friends and getting upset that they don't run over to greet you in the dairy aisle is being butthurt. This isn't a Korean thing, this is a "Is everyone on Earth supposed to be your friend" issue.

Heck sometimes with fellow NETs if we're busy we'll barely do more than nod and go about things. Other times, yeah we'll chit chat and end up going out for drinks after shopping. And there a few NETs in town who are socially inept and end up talking your ear off for 45 minutes if you say "hi" so you dodge them.

That's called 'normal'. Weird is expecting your coworkers to run up and talk to you every time they see you (in some circles, in others its not). And postulating that the guy might be 'talk your ear off guy' is not something to get offended about.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Oh yeah, and he also supports segregation...lol.


No, I support equal opportunity and advancement for all. If some employees are given the opportunity to improve their relevant work skills for free, but others aren't and this is part of a social group, I as boss, would move to disrupt it.



What you are talking about is networking and it happens in every workplace. I have worked in management too and I never dreamed of separating my employees after work based on their race. Note the hakwon owners don't separate the Koreans based on their english ability, nor does he try to prevent the formation of exclusively korean cliques or exclusive NET cliques. In fact, by segregating his employees he is creating two distinct cliques in his workplace, Korean and NET. This leads to distrust and the belief that there is an "us and them". I believe that is the owners goal.


But was he separating them based on race or based on them being native speakers? Were there any Korean-American native speakers included?

If he was separating them based on race, then that's racist. If he's doing it because they are native speakers and the unfair advantage that may incur, then that is a legitimate workplace issue. It's difficult because native speaking and race can be tied together, and the fact that your industry and workplace skills are centered around English.


Obviously he was separating them based on race. He said Koreans cannot socialize with non-Koreans outside the workplace. He didn't say anything about english level. If it was based on english level than the Koreans that were fluent in english wouldn't be able to hang out with the Koreans that were not fluent in English. That was not the case. It was simply Koreans not being allowed to hang out with foreigners.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Steelrails"]
hiamnotcool wrote:

Quote:
Your opinions are based on speculation and your perception of NETs that are not ethnically Korean, you are ethnically Korean so I don't think you have the type of insight necessary to call us "butthurt"


So someone who has grown up and lived their entire life in America lacks the necessary insight to comment on what NET's perceive? Again, as I alluded too several pages ago, this has a lot to do with the Milleniall mindset of entitlement, and the overly sensitive PC culture, something that has been written about ad nausem back home.

Funny though, for all the griping about me not being able to have proper insight, you don't seem to have any problem talking about what the Koreans are thinking in this incident and declaring what their motives are.

I could turn around and say, you are ethnically American/British/etc., so you don't have the type of insight necessary to call the Koreans "racist" or to speculate on their motives. But that wouldn't be wrong to say. I think you do have some insight, and I think the amount of insight I have on the Western experience certainly trumps the amount of insight you have on the Korean experience.

But either way both you and I should be able to comment and speculate without having to worry about people saying "You are ethnically ____, your opinion doesn't count as much." That's ridiculous both ways. I support your right to speculate on Korean motives and the fact that you might have insights, regardless of ethnicity. Please show the same to me.

You accuse me of supporting segregation and then you turn around and say my insights aren't as valid because of my ethnicity. Nice.


Your insights on this matter aren't as valid because of your ethnicity. How could you possibly know what it is like to be a white person in Korea more than a white person that has lived in Korea? You have more insight on what it is like to be an adopted kyopo, I won't question you in that regard. I may try to argue with you if I think you are wrong in some way, but I won't turn around and call you "butthurt" if you start venting about a way that you have been mistreated. You grew up as an american of Korean ethnicity as a result you have probably encountered some scenarios in the USA I would never encounter, and the same goes for some scenarios I have encountered in the USA.
Of course sometimes I speculate about what is motivating a Korean's actions because sometimes I am forced to. However, when I do that is in relation to the way they treat white people....because I can see that from a personal level. I'm not about to start telling you what your experience as an adopted Korean person is here. I can tell you what some other adopted Koreans have told me about their experience here, as well as what some non-white foreigners have told me. I can share their experiences but I actually usually steer clear of trying to define it because I don't see myself having the proper insight regarding their experience.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

Yes, expecting co-workers to be your friends and getting upset that they don't run over to greet you in the dairy aisle is being butthurt. This isn't a Korean thing, this is a "Is everyone on Earth supposed to be your friend" issue.

Heck sometimes with fellow NETs if we're busy we'll barely do more than nod and go about things. Other times, yeah we'll chit chat and end up going out for drinks after shopping. And there a few NETs in town who are socially inept and end up talking your ear off for 45 minutes if you say "hi" so you dodge them.

That's called 'normal'. Weird is expecting your coworkers to run up and talk to you every time they see you (in some circles, in others its not). And postulating that the guy might be 'talk your ear off guy' is not something to get offended about.


OP just asked the question and was hoping for an explanation as to why it might have happened. OP didn't come off butthurt to me at all, just curious. Some other people talked about being alienated by their coworkers, which from what some other NET's have told me happens frequently here. Those NET's were not "smelly, scary, culturally ignorant" foreigners either by they way. You took the liberty to bash all NET's as deskwarming whiners that think they should be catered too.

Just the normal stuff. Someone says one bad thing about a few Koreans they have encountered and is immediately labeled a Korea Hater and grouped with all the chronic whiners that come here.
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 11 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lemak wrote:
Enrico Palazzo wrote:
Canadian bashing, Korean, or American bashing etc..., especially in such an overt manner, is verboten.


Hear hear! As long as it remains open season on those dastardly kiwis, it's all good! You'll be missed, Uncle Jesse!!!


Kiwis are cool, mate. To chime in, I would say I have met plenty of friendly Koreans in the southern parts who are more than happy to see me inside or outside the store. It does help if you speak a decent level of Korean to encourage bonding with the locals just as a French or German fellow tourist might appreciate seeing you or being in your company if you know their language and English very well. Language is a major key to connecting to other people, but even if there isn't much communication, language wise, some locals recognize you and say hello. Remember, many of us come from Western countries where, in some areas, some people are not overly friendly. Anyway, try to be friendly enough on here. Very Happy
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="hiamnotcool"]
Steelrails wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:

Quote:
Your opinions are based on speculation and your perception of NETs that are not ethnically Korean, you are ethnically Korean so I don't think you have the type of insight necessary to call us "butthurt"


So someone who has grown up and lived their entire life in America lacks the necessary insight to comment on what NET's perceive? Again, as I alluded too several pages ago, this has a lot to do with the Milleniall mindset of entitlement, and the overly sensitive PC culture, something that has been written about ad nausem back home.

Funny though, for all the griping about me not being able to have proper insight, you don't seem to have any problem talking about what the Koreans are thinking in this incident and declaring what their motives are.

I could turn around and say, you are ethnically American/British/etc., so you don't have the type of insight necessary to call the Koreans "racist" or to speculate on their motives. But that wouldn't be wrong to say. I think you do have some insight, and I think the amount of insight I have on the Western experience certainly trumps the amount of insight you have on the Korean experience.

But either way both you and I should be able to comment and speculate without having to worry about people saying "You are ethnically ____, your opinion doesn't count as much." That's ridiculous both ways. I support your right to speculate on Korean motives and the fact that you might have insights, regardless of ethnicity. Please show the same to me.

You accuse me of supporting segregation and then you turn around and say my insights aren't as valid because of my ethnicity. Nice.


Your insights on this matter aren't as valid because of your ethnicity. How could you possibly know what it is like to be a white person in Korea more than a white person that has lived in Korea? You have more insight on what it is like to be an adopted kyopo, I won't question you in that regard. I may try to argue with you if I think you are wrong in some way, but I won't turn around and call you "butthurt" if you start venting about a way that you have been mistreated. You grew up as an american of Korean ethnicity as a result you have probably encountered some scenarios in the USA I would never encounter, and the same goes for some scenarios I have encountered in the USA.
Of course sometimes I speculate about what is motivating a Korean's actions because sometimes I am forced to. However, when I do that is in relation to the way they treat white people....because I can see that from a personal level. I'm not about to start telling you what your experience as an adopted Korean person is here. I can tell you what some other adopted Koreans have told me about their experience here, as well as what some non-white foreigners have told me. I can share their experiences but I actually usually steer clear of trying to define it because I don't see myself having the proper insight regarding their experience.


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.
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madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lemak wrote:

Hear hear! As long as it remains open season on those dastardly kiwis, it's all good! You'll be missed, Uncle Jesse!!!


No, no, nothing wrong with Kiwis, it's those Australians you have to be concerned about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2gii2nenUg
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.

Soooo... can a "White" guy chime in on this and agree with SR, or do I need to go through some sort of pigment test?

Wink
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.

Soooo... can a "White" guy chime in on this and agree with SR, or do I need to go through some sort of pigment test?

Wink



Hear hear. I'd like to know the answer to this exact question as well.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


Dude, that's weak. Look, either it is okay for me to talk about the NET experience, even if it is not my ethnicity, and it is okay for your to speculate about Korea motives, regardless of whether or not you are Korean. OR it is not okay for me to pontificate on the non-gyopo NET experience and you cannot speculate on Korean motives. I for one, think it is okay for you to speculate on their motives. Since you do so, please extend me the same courtesy in regards to the OP's.


You can do it, and I can do it to you and to Koreans. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying your perception isn't going to be as valid as that of a person that has first hand knowledge of the issue. I think you are way too bold in judging people.

Soooo... can a "White" guy chime in on this and agree with SR, or do I need to go through some sort of pigment test?

Wink


I think you will be required to take a pigment test, a blood test and a caucasian fidelity test. Otherwise you are OBVIOUSLY Korean (meant as some form of insult).

Good luck Capt.
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