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The State of the Union is Long
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: The State of the Union is Long Reply with quote

Here's a transcript of the full speech

Now I will post five things Obama said. Guess which four are true and which one is false!

Quote:
Too many families who have never missed a payment & want to refinance are being told no. That’s holding our entire economy back.


Quote:
Today, skyrocketing costs price way too many young people out of a higher education, or saddle them with unsustainable debt.


Quote:
The 12 hottest years on record have all come in the last 15. Heat waves, droughts, wildfires, and floods – all are more frequent & intense.


Quote:
Tonight recognize there are communities in this country where no matter how hard you work, it’s virtually impossible to get ahead.


Quote:
Together, we have cleared away the rubble of crisis, and can say with renewed confidence that the state of our union is stronger.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go with the last one?

Did you watch Rubio's speech? That dude annoys me.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last one. And yeah, Rubio rubbed me wrong too.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:

Did you watch Rubio's speech? That dude annoys me.


The entire concept of a scheduled "response" to the state of the union address is intrinsically annoying. The state of the union address is a specific manifestation of a general requirement listed in the Constitution: the President is to "from time to time give to Congress information of the State of the Union and recommend to their Consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." All efforts should be taken to keep this a minimally partisan process, but a scheduled opposition response is intrinsically partisan in character; it demeans our nation simply by existing. Note that I'm not exclusively criticizing Republicans here: the state of the union response originated among Democrats, and it's no more laudable when they do it.

If particular content in the state of the union address is false, misleading, or otherwise faulty, by all means it should be discussed and corrected, but there are ways to do that other than the opposition party heckling the President's enactment of his constitutional duties with their partisan bickering. The expectation of a partisan "rebuttal" also makes the state of the union speech itself more inclined towards being partisan character, which is problematic in its own right.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rubio wrote:
But if we can get the economy to grow at just 4 percent a year, it would create millions of middle class jobs. And it could reduce our deficits by almost $4 trillion dollars over the next decade.


So tired of people who think unlimited, high-rate economic growth is a reasonable possibility over an unlimited span of time, such that it represents an option for solving our society's problems.

Rubio wrote:
One of the best ways to encourage growth is through our energy industry. Of course solar and wind energy should be a part of our energy portfolio. But God also blessed America with abundant coal, oil and natural gas. Instead of wasting more taxpayer money on so-called “clean energy” companies like Solyndra, let’s open up more federal lands for safe and responsible exploration. And let’s reform our energy regulations so that they’re reasonable and based on common sense. If we can grow our energy industry, it will make us energy independent, it will create middle class jobs and it will help bring manufacturing back from places like China.


Yes, instead of actually trying to innovate something more sustainable, let's just burn up our finite quantity of fossil fuels at an ever-increasing rate, pumping as much carbon as possible into the atmosphere, and then say, "Hey man, we can't control the weather," when it starts to go wrong.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:

Yes, instead of actually trying to innovate something more sustainable, let's just burn up our finite quantity of fossil fuels at an ever-increasing rate, pumping as much carbon as possible into the atmosphere, and then say, "Hey man, we can't control the weather," when it starts to go wrong.


That's the GOP mantra! And they think if they pass immigration reform, they'll become more widely accepted by voters again. Somehow I doubt that..

I used to admire the GOP for staying on message and thought it was an effective tool to winning votes (more attractive having a clear, strong message than not having one, which has often described the Democratic Party). I didn't realize they would stick to script that stubbornly.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More oil is c reated every day that geologic process has not stopped. Alternatives are fine but what do we do until they are developed?

I thought it was a good speech and it had a good vision.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
More oil is c reated every day that geologic process has not stopped. Alternatives are fine but what do we do until they are developed?


They have been developed and are continuing to improve. If Germany can use solar power effectively, I'm pretty sure the US can as well. And I'm not saying to stop drilling for oil or natural gas, just would be wise to continue to support alternatives.

You really thought Rubio's speech was good? It was the same crap his party has been saying for over a decade now. :yawn:
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Obama's. Rubios's nothing new. I am a suppoter of solar and wind but I jus do no think we can make the total transition right now. We have a few more years until we can get off oil.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
More oil is c reated every day that geologic process has not stopped.


Oil is not created at anywhere near the rate at which we consume it. There's a reason the places which are being searched are growing ever more bizarre and dangerous. The Gulf of Mexico being screwed up by oil -- and then screwed up more by oil dispersants so everyone could go back to pretending things were fine -- is just a prelude. And it's not as if running out of oil is the only problem with our intensive usage of it.

rollo wrote:
Alternatives are fine but what do we do until they are developed?


You want the real answer? Massively tone down consumption. Don't grow, shrink. Design cities around walking/biking accompanied by the minimal necessary degree of public transportation. Shift away from the model of centralized mass production in the poorest areas of the world followed by fuel-intensive distribution, and back towards localized production to the extent possible. There's tons of room for improvement here, but no, I guess we have to not only continue consuming at this rate, but actually increase consumption in order to "grow" at 4% in order to solve our problems. Infinite growth, forever!

Fore go your McDonald's toy; strip consumer choice of its sacredness. We can have fulfilling lives without living to consume, so long as our system of production and distribution is also just and humane.
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stilicho25



Joined: 05 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modern technology and the consumer goods I consume improve my life. If you are saying there are limitations to how much and what a responsible person should consume, I agree completely. If your a luddite who wants to take my ipad, pc, tv, or any of the other wonderful inventions that make my daily life go smoothly, I would say no way, luddite!
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stilicho25 wrote:
Modern technology and the consumer goods I consume improve my life. If you are saying there are limitations to how much and what a responsible person should consume, I agree completely. If your a luddite who wants to take my ipad, pc, tv, or any of the other wonderful inventions that make my daily life go smoothly, I would say no way, luddite!


Technology is not bad in-and-of itself. Consumption for the sake of consumption is bad. Owning a computer is fine. Driving around in a low-fuel efficiency SUV just because you can afford it is not. It's not about technology being bad, it's about hedonistic consumption being bad. Technology in itself is good, because it holds the secret to raising standard of living without needing to consume proportionately more.

I do think the ipad you use should be produced at a more local level, though. Shipping it across the ocean to save on labor costs is stupid and ultimately self-defeating. This might mean that you'd have to live with a few less pretty trinkets "improving" your life since you would no longer have Chinese pseudo-slave labor (or in the case of prison workers there, outright slave labor) subsidizing your consumption.
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stilicho25



Joined: 05 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds pretty reasonable. These days, when greens say "consume responsibly!" they usually mean they want us to give up cars and such.

I agree completely that the last 20 years have been pretty decadent.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stilicho25 wrote:
That sounds pretty reasonable. These days, when greens say "consume responsibly!" they usually mean they want us to give up cars and such.


I do think we should largely give up cars, provided we first redesign our cities around walking and/or biking. I don't know about you, but I like to walk; it feels good, and it's healthy. Both intracity and intercity transport should largely be public transportation, the latter of which would also double as shipping lines for those things (especially raw materials, but also some goods) which cannot be produced locally, but walking and/or biking should be primary. Deep-countryside dwellers would still have obvious reason to own a truck or some such in which to get around, but urban dwellers could and should be weaned off of personal automotive transit.

Hell, one of the reasons living in Korea is so affordable is because cars are non-necessities, so many foreigners go without them, resulting in comfortable surplus earnings.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly agree with Fox as to cars. The two-car family lifestyle grates me here in America. Not so much that people chose to have two cars, that's their choice, but that families need two cars so both wage-earners can work.

That said, this is less the result of a consumption-driven culture than necessity. America is wide and in many places sparsely populated. Furthermore, decentralization and Federalism makes a great network of trains less advantageous because high speed rail to cities like Los Angeles or Tampa just aren't a good idea. Both cities have refrained from serious investment in mass transit infrastructure. So while one might get there by high speed rail, one would be stranded when navigating each city.
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