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People want to be obese
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Blockhead confidence



Joined: 02 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: People want to be obese Reply with quote

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?ref=health&_r=0

Quote:
“This,” Witherly said, “is one of the most marvelously constructed foods on the planet, in terms of pure pleasure.” He ticked off a dozen attributes of the Cheetos that make the brain say more. But the one he focused on most was the puff’s uncanny ability to melt in the mouth. “It’s called vanishing caloric density,” Witherly said. “If something melts down quickly, your brain thinks that there’s no calories in it . . . you can just keep eating it forever.”


Processed food has gotten very complex, and our ability as consumers to be informed about eating it is like trying to be informed about buying credit default swaps.

Much more than exercise does our change in diet explain the obesity epidemic.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Blockhead confidence wrote:

Processed food has gotten very complex, and our ability as consumers to be informed about eating it is like trying to be informed about buying credit default swaps.


Simple solution: avoid eating processed food. In some parts of the country, that will also save one money when buying groceries.
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Blockhead confidence



Joined: 02 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Simple solution: avoid eating processed food. In some parts of the country, that will also save one money when buying groceries.


That seems pretty drastic.

Processed foods have a lot of benefits. They're time saving, portable, can last much longer than fresh foods, etc. etc. I don't get why we can't have reasonably healthy processed foods without having to worry the company making it is, on the sly, working out ways for our body to like it more.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Blockhead confidence wrote:
I don't get why we can't have reasonably healthy processed foods without having to worry the company making it is, on the sly, working out ways for our body to like it more.


You don't understand why you need to worry about massive corporations, run by sociopaths who don't care about your well-being at all but really want your money, deliberately producing products designed to entice increased consumption?
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Blockhead confidence wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
Simple solution: avoid eating processed food. In some parts of the country, that will also save one money when buying groceries.


That seems pretty drastic.

Processed foods have a lot of benefits. They're time saving, portable, can last much longer than fresh foods, etc. etc. I don't get why we can't have reasonably healthy processed foods without having to worry the company making it is, on the sly, working out ways for our body to like it more.



Drastic? Not really. We managed to survive w/out processed foods for nearly our entire existence. Fruits and nuts generally take no time to prep, are portable, and in nuts case, last a long time.

How time consuming is it to make a stir fry of veggies and meat (or tofu if you're a vegetarian)? It takes minutes to make a bowl of oatmeal.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Blockhead confidence wrote:
I don't get why we can't have reasonably healthy processed foods without having to worry the company making it is, on the sly, working out ways for our body to like it more.


You don't understand why you need to worry about massive corporations, run by sociopaths who don't care about your well-being at all but really want your money, deliberately producing products designed to entice increased consumption?


Good comment/question.
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NohopeSeriously



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a consume-obsessed zombie is more important than being a healthy upright individual in a society.
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Blockhead confidence



Joined: 02 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
You don't understand why you need to worry about massive corporations, run by sociopaths who don't care about your well-being at all but really want your money, deliberately producing products designed to entice increased consumption?


So you would feel comfortable to have your food produced by well-meaning small businesses? I don't have confidence it wouldn't lead to similar results, albeit slower and less efficiently.
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Blockhead confidence



Joined: 02 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Drastic? Not really. We managed to survive w/out processed foods for nearly our entire existence. Fruits and nuts generally take no time to prep, are portable, and in nuts case, last a long time.

How time consuming is it to make a stir fry of veggies and meat (or tofu if you're a vegetarian)? It takes minutes to make a bowl of oatmeal.


Your position still seems extreme. Bread, cakes and cookies are all processed foods which can also be 'processed' at home. Are you ok with these? If yes, what's wrong with having a group of people make these on your behalf to save time and money?

To be clear, I don't think all processed foods are unhealthy.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Blockhead confidence wrote:
Fox wrote:
You don't understand why you need to worry about massive corporations, run by sociopaths who don't care about your well-being at all but really want your money, deliberately producing products designed to entice increased consumption?


So you would feel comfortable to have your food produced by well-meaning small businesses?


A huge portion of what I eat is produced by well-meaning small businesses, so yes, I would. These people are a part of my community. I trust them precisely because they are not faceless corporate sociopaths to whom I am a statistic. The old women who sell me 떡 are not hiring food scientists to make their 떡 addictive.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how about that green coffee bean extract?

Seems to be the newest wonder pill.

So far, I haven't read anything detrimental about it.


Regarding processed food made by locals vs huge corporate entities;

Usually food that is mass produced has to have a long shelf-life and thus

requires things like preservatives to keep it from spoilage.


I finally found a decent Korean restaurant in Saskatoon, even got to

practice my hangug mal a bit. kewl.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Blockhead confidence wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
Drastic? Not really. We managed to survive w/out processed foods for nearly our entire existence. Fruits and nuts generally take no time to prep, are portable, and in nuts case, last a long time.

How time consuming is it to make a stir fry of veggies and meat (or tofu if you're a vegetarian)? It takes minutes to make a bowl of oatmeal.


Your position still seems extreme. Bread, cakes and cookies are all processed foods which can also be 'processed' at home. Are you ok with these? If yes, what's wrong with having a group of people make these on your behalf to save time and money?

To be clear, I don't think all processed foods are unhealthy.


Some baked goods are better than others. I'd rather have bread that isn't packed with perservatives. Perhaps it isn't possible in Korea, but in most parts of the USA, it's quite easy to get bread (or cakes, cookies, etc) that aren't packed with perservatives.

Plus, when I said avoid, I meant minimize, not completely stop.
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Blockhead confidence



Joined: 02 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
A huge portion of what I eat is produced by well-meaning small businesses, so yes, I would. These people are a part of my community. I trust them precisely because they are not faceless corporate sociopaths to whom I am a statistic. The old women who sell me 떡 are not hiring food scientists to make their 떡 addictive.


There probably would be more oversight of your ddeok getting made if it was all local, but:

1) Can food production never be centralized?
2) If not, aren't your ddeok makers kind of condemned to a life of making ddeok (as someone has to)

3) Competition requires secrecy, and your ddeok makers, no matter how small and local the market, need secrecy to effectively compete. Trouble starts from here.

It's not out of the benevolence of your ddeok maker....
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Blockhead confidence



Joined: 02 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Some baked goods are better than others. I'd rather have bread that isn't packed with perservatives. Perhaps it isn't possible in Korea, but in most parts of the USA, it's quite easy to get bread (or cakes, cookies, etc) that aren't packed with perservatives.

Plus, when I said avoid, I meant minimize, not completely stop.


See, you're listing individual attributes of the processed food here ('preservatives'), but the point I was making, and of the article, is that for consumers to focus on specific problems of foods isn't enough.

The whole production process these days is hugely complex. Only trained observers who can see the other side (which because of the secrecy requirement of competition we can't) would have a chance of ensuring food is what we want it to be.

To limit yourself to fresh foods and the occasional locally-produced bread seems kind of luddite, don't you think? Processing doesn't equal unhealthy.

And your vegetables and grains and nuts--are these all from genetically unmodified stock, and even if so, are you sure of this? It's a similar problem.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: People want to be obese Reply with quote

Blockhead confidence wrote:

1) Can food production never be centralized?


Of course it can be centralized, but at the cost of the phenomenon of which you complain. You want a big corporation making your snacks? They are going to use food science to make you crave their snacks. You want to regulate them? They will capture your regulators with bribery (aka "lobbying"). The decentralization of the means of production is the best solution.

Blockhead confidence wrote:
2) If not, aren't your ddeok makers kind of condemned to a life of making ddeok (as someone has to)


If the choice is between being "condemned" to owning a small 떡집, or the drudgery of working on a factory line, which do you think they prefer? Unless you have a Star Trek-style replicator to share with us they are going to be doing some sort of work or another, and the alternative to 떡집 owner is unlikely to be especially glamorous.

Blockhead confidence wrote:
3) Competition requires secrecy, and your ddeok makers, no matter how small and local the market, need secrecy to effectively compete. Trouble starts from here.


No, the trouble starts when large corporations, with profit margins in the millions of dollars, use a tiny fraction of said profits to hire food scientists with the goal of making their products habit forming. Small business snack shops generally do not have the profit margins to engage in such tomfoolery, which is why this has not historically been a problem.

Blockhead confidence wrote:
It's not out of the benevolence of your ddeok maker....


Tell you what. You buy your Cheetos, I will buy my home-made 떡, and we will see who has to worry about the problem of which you complain and who does not.
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