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Bombing North Korea's Flag Called For?
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rchristo10



Joined: 14 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Bombing North Korea's Flag Called For? Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but since when has any country (two in this case) been allowed, with or without provocation, to bomb the flag of a UN member country as part of a military exercise?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-south-korea-say-massive-live-fire-drills-are-warning-against-north-korean-aggression/2012/06/21/gJQA6dB5tV_story.html

Yes, we have the answer. Shocked

Talk about international double standards. I'm still a bit weirded out by this.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're still at war, and unlike us, they have shot at and killed actual citizens of our country in recent times. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much for taking the high road. I thought we were supposed to be the good guys.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulman69 wrote:
So much for taking the high road. I thought we were supposed to be the good guys.

"Every man thinks he's righteous" even, perhaps especially, the 'bad guys'.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North Korea always uses over the top language and effigies of American Presidents and LMB in their protests.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Every man thinks he's righteous" even, perhaps especially, the 'bad guys'.


I don't think it's righteous behaviour to use the North Korean flag as target practice, and I don't think the majority would.
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulman69 wrote:
Quote:
"Every man thinks he's righteous" even, perhaps especially, the 'bad guys'.


I don't think it's righteous behaviour to use the North Korean flag as target practice, and I don't think the majority would.


It's easy to have a "holier than thou art" attitude when you're an outsider looking in.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Bombing North Korea's Flag Called For? Reply with quote

rchristo10 wrote:
I'm sorry, but since when has any country (two in this case) been allowed, with or without provocation, to bomb the flag of a UN member country as part of a military exercise?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-south-korea-say-massive-live-fire-drills-are-warning-against-north-korean-aggression/2012/06/21/gJQA6dB5tV_story.html

Yes, we have the answer. Shocked

Talk about international double standards. I'm still a bit weirded out by this.


So, with the DPRK threatening to bomb Seoul into a sea of fire, actually bombing a Sk island, and doing tank manoeuvres with SK cities marked as targets... you figure THIS is bad?

I'm guessing you haven't read the history of this peninsula over the past 50+ years.

These two nations are at war - a flag target is next to nothing.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's easy to have a "holier than thou art" attitude when you're an outsider looking in.


I live in Seoul so if there is a war I would be affected. That would make me an insider. You're attitude is pretty bad, are you a gyopo by any chance?

Quote:
So, with the DPRK threatening to bomb Seoul into a sea of fire, actually bombing a Sk island, and doing tank manoeuvres with SK cities marked as targets... you figure THIS is bad?

I'm guessing you haven't read the history of this peninsula over the past 50+ years.

These two nations are at war - a flag target is next to nothing.


Just because they do stupid things doesn't mean we should too. Also which two nations would you say are at war?
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulman69 wrote:
Quote:
It's easy to have a "holier than thou art" attitude when you're an outsider looking in.


I live in Seoul so if there is a war I would be affected. That would make me an insider. You're attitude is pretty bad, are you a gyopo by any chance?


No - if war were to break out, I would bet that you'd use your US/UK/Canadian citizenship to hop on the first available plane out of Korea.

I'm in the process of entering the Korean Army and if war were to break out in the next two years, would have to fight.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No - if war were to break out, I would bet that you'd use your US/UK/Canadian citizenship to hop on the first available plane out of Korea.

I'm in the process of entering the Korean Army and if war were to break out in the next two years, would have to fight.


You honestly think that there will be time to "hop on the first available plane" if a war breaks out?
If bombs start flying I'm stuck here with the rest of them.

Also, if a war broke out I reckon you would be looking for ways to get back to mommy and daddy in the good old US of A as soon as possible.
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Nismo



Joined: 31 Aug 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's hypocritical to claim that US-Korea "war games" are not meant to provoke NK, and then to go ahead and bomb NK flags. This has nothing to do with NK's stupid policies - The U.S. and SK are hypocritical.
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rchristo10



Joined: 14 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: Bombing North Korea's Flag Called For? Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
rchristo10 wrote:
I'm sorry, but since when has any country (two in this case) been allowed, with or without provocation, to bomb the flag of a UN member country as part of a military exercise?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-south-korea-say-massive-live-fire-drills-are-warning-against-north-korean-aggression/2012/06/21/gJQA6dB5tV_story.html

Yes, we have the answer. Shocked

Talk about international double standards. I'm still a bit weirded out by this.


So, with the DPRK threatening to bomb Seoul into a sea of fire, actually bombing a Sk island, and doing tank manoeuvres with SK cities marked as targets... you figure THIS is bad?

I'm guessing you haven't read the history of this peninsula over the past 50+ years.

These two nations are at war - a flag target is next to nothing.


I'll assume that your equivocation of 50 years of angst and (clearly delusional) but so-called state of war with the defacing of a nation's flag as a symbol of your ignorance of what a flag represents to its people.

Had it been a group of kid's burning the flag, or perhaps a country that doesn't no any better (i.e. North Korea), doing something that goes firmly against international law and ethics--I'd say shame on them and they deserve a spanking, but the little bastards don't know any better, which is pretty much how international law works (customs law trumps contracts).

But to demand that a country follow international protocol then directly violate it in such a vicious and shallow manner--in the name of revenge (as you put it in more words than necessary)--is hypocritical and wrong.

Next you'll be promoting a policy of rape of POWs--you know, since we are, in essence, in war. Please. Rolling Eyes

In terms of understanding Korean History. Yeah, dude, go there. I dare you. Hahaha.
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lysekend



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Location: NC

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, first off, no one "bombed the flag." The NK flag was being used to mark enemy territory in a war game. The flag itself was not being targeted and I have seen no accounts of the flag actually being hit by any of the munitions.

Second, of course it was meant to get the attention of the North Koreans. The NKs have been threatening the US and SK for decades. This was one way for those who have been threatened to let the NKs know that they can play the empty threats game, too.

Was it an immature gesture, of course. Is it cause for public outcry and disparaging remarks about the US and SK, no. War is not nice, fair, or pretty. Get over it.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, the ROK government officially does not recognize the DPRK regime as legitimate or an actual nation, in which case their flag is nothing and holds no standing. To the ROK government the flag is not an official banner of another sovereign country. It might as well be a piece of cloth with a picture of Calvin urinating on a Jeff Gordon 24.

If the ROK government were to regard the North Koreans as operating under international law that would confer legitimacy upon their regime. To regard their flag as a legitimate symbol of a legitimate nation would violate its non-recognition stance.

Second, while shooting at and destroying another country's battle flag has been questionable (if only because the capture of it was seen as a war trophy), it was standard practice to shoot the color bearer during armed conflict. Historically, the color bearer served an actual military function in the days of massed infantry assaults and no radio communication on a battlefield that was filled with the deafening war of cannon fire and muskets. Now one might say that it would be "dishonorable" to shoot an unarmed person waving a flag, but if the order on the other side is "Fix Bayonets, guide on the colors, and charge", then shooting the guy holding that flag to stop 300 men with bayonets from charging you and stabbing you seems like a pretty obvious choice.

Now, in modern warfare, you aren't going to have flag bearers of course, but in say, an assault on a command post that has a flag waving, that could certainly serve as a guide for where to aim some mortar fire to take out their command, communications, and control.

Third, its important to consider the historical context regarding flags in North-South disputes. Ever hear of the giant flagpole along the DMZ and all the other 'games'?

Quote:
You honestly think that there will be time to "hop on the first available plane" if a war breaks out?
If bombs start flying I'm stuck here with the rest of them.


Yes, because full-scale wars won't start with the turn of a key. You have to mobilize and maneuver. That takes weeks and would be picked up by intelligence. There would be a run up in the news and probably some skirmish-type incidents. What you think North Korea is going to pick up the phone and tell the artillery along the DMZ to start the 'Mother of All Bombardments' while its reserve force is sitting at home and its armored units are undergoing maintenance on base?


Last edited by Steelrails on Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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