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If War Breaks Out.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

The American Public asks you if you're going to teach in North or South Korea and thinks Iranians are Arabs. The American Public doesn't even know the difference between a semi-auto and a selective-fire rifle. The American Public couldn't pick out a MIG-25 from an F-15.

Who gives a crap what they thought?



You are the American Public.
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry people. If war breaks out, everyone will get a free chopper ride to Busan courtesy of the U.S. Army.

Because it's the military the inflight menu will only have one choice which is pizza. Non alcoholic drinks are free while beer may be purchased for $5 a can.
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OneWayTraffic



Joined: 14 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
OneWayTraffic wrote:
You may not like Steelrails' tone, but that doesn't make him incorrect.

Capability of forces and weapons systems is well known.

The only real unknowns for the above are to do with the latest American systems. In Gulf War it came as a surprise to me at least to see bombs dropped down airshafts.

The Geography of Korea is well known.

The advantages and disadvantages of possible courses of action that each side may take is reasonably well known.

Kim Jong Eun's best interests are reasonably well known.

His intentions, and the current power balance within North Korea are not.


That's about it really. Nothing else to discuss.


I disagree, there is a lot to discuss. North Korea is always up to some kind of mischief and that is why the world is always paying attention to North Korea. It's a dangerous situation so it needs to be continuously observed and caution needs to be taken whenever it seems like it is teetering on the brink. There will always be intellectuals trying to go against the grain talking about how it isn't a threat, how the outcome is so obvious there is no reason to worry, and how the whole situation is a joke. Then there are the people that don't have the luxury of debating in coffee shops and classrooms. They actually have to make sure these things don't get out of hand. Forgive them for being on the safe side and overestimating N Korea's capabilities (if that is what they do) to make sure North Korea doesn't ever come close to shifting the balance of power in it's favor. As weak as it is, it is already killing South Koreans. So yes, right now USA and S Korea have the advantage, but a lot of that is because they aren't listening to the SR of the world that tell them to chill out and quit worrying about things. They have maintained that advantage through not letting up for a day and not underestimating N Korea. Anyone living in South Korea should acknowledge there is always a possibility something bad might go down.

I only listed 7 things that have to be maintained to keep North Korea at bay. There are plenty of more. I'm not getting into an argument about firepower, tactics, or strategy because I accept that I don't have the necessary information to analyze them. One article that is available to the general public like Nautilus isn't enough to determine that North Korea isn't a legitimate threat to Seoul. I'm not saying people should panic and go home or anything like that, but they should know what the plan is in case something happens. It may be nice to call people alarmists or idiots, but in my opinion this isn't the type of situation where people shouldn't be watching the news or just getting the occasional update on what is going on.

According to SR the former 1st Special Forces Group Commander in Korea is a guy that can barely read powerpoint and only cares about getting funds for cool shiny equipment his boys can play with. If that's the case then we really are screwed.


Fair enough. I meant that the current imbalance of forces in terms of training, quality, doctrine, intelligence is overwhelmingly in favor of SK and the US. I think that SteelRails is basically correct on this. (Not that that is too hard to figure out.)

I also think that it's quite clearly not in North Korea's best interest to start something.

However I certainly wouldn't recommend any kind of complacency. Obama and Park are doing all the right things IMO.

I also find the intentions of the North Korean regime in respect of Nuclear weapons to be a very worrying trend. Part of me thinks that it would be a good idea to try and normalize relations with the North and make nice. Recent history suggests that when that has been tried it hasn't worked.

So I'm left with the other option. Which would be bloody and very dangerous. But think that waiting for KJE to develop nukes that he can put on a functioning missile is insane.

So no I'm quite glad not to be in Seoul right now, but in safe old NZ.
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan Rogers wrote:
Don't worry people. If war breaks out, everyone will get a free chopper ride to Busan courtesy of the U.S. Army.

Because it's the military the inflight menu will only have one choice which is pizza. Non alcoholic drinks are free while beer may be purchased for $5 a can.


Even with the surface to air missiles and small arms fire, it's still better than Air Canada.
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vaticanhotline



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: in the most decent sometimes sun

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe China are considering doing something, if this is any indication of opinion amongst the ruling class there:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9e2f68b2-7c5c-11e2-99f0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2PZuWCBLO

The guy who wrote it was suspended, but if you think about it, that's hardly surprising. If an American journalist had written an article about how America should abandon Israel because the geopolitical benefits were no longer worth the hassle, then that person would have been suspended too.


Last edited by vaticanhotline on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vaticanhotline wrote:
If an American journalist had written an article about how America should abandon Israel because the geopolitical benefits were no longer worth the hassle, then that person would have been suspended too.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Thomas#Resignation_controversy
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vaticanhotline



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: in the most decent sometimes sun

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
vaticanhotline wrote:
If an American journalist had written an article about how America should abandon Israel because the geopolitical benefits were no longer worth the hassle, then that person would have been suspended too.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Thomas#Resignation_controversy


Danke. I was trying to point out that the response would be: well, the guy was suspended, so clearly they're not interested in what he's saying. Your link...does not invalidate that line of argument at all. Fair enough.
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diver



Joined: 16 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vaticanhotline wrote:
diver wrote:
vaticanhotline wrote:
If an American journalist had written an article about how America should abandon Israel because the geopolitical benefits were no longer worth the hassle, then that person would have been suspended too.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Thomas#Resignation_controversy


Danke. I was trying to point out that the response would be: well, the guy was suspended, so clearly they're not interested in what he's saying. Your link...does not invalidate that line of argument at all. Fair enough.


It's pretty much a perfect example of what you said.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/72688_4923533438566_1422359953_n.jpg
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
The Libyan conflict was supposed to be over in "days, not weeks"


Who in the world thought that in a country the size of Libya? Some idiot/shill (many shills know the real truth and are certainly not idiots) on CNN?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-intlJA3nK4
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
Stan Rogers wrote:
Don't worry people. If war breaks out, everyone will get a free chopper ride to Busan courtesy of the U.S. Army.

Because it's the military the inflight menu will only have one choice which is pizza. Non alcoholic drinks are free while beer may be purchased for $5 a can.


Even with the surface to air missiles and small arms fire, it's still better than Air Canada.


Yes, at least with the army you can still buy a beer from them with cash.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North Korea continues to bluff (or mean business?) by asking embassies to remove their diplomats by April 10 ... http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-moves-missiles-south-korean-markets-roiled-090218130--business.html

Even old Cuban leader Fidel Castro (in that article) calls the situation on the Korean peninsula "incredible and absurd" and "one of the gravest risks of nuclear war since the Crisis of October" (Cuban Missile Crisis), 50 years ago.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Swampfox10mm wrote:
Lots of blathering by steelrails on here.

Seems that much of it is incorrect, from where I'm standing.


How and why? In detail please.


I think any reasonable individual can see it. No need to debate foolish blather, nor re-post it.

And this thread has basically derailed into a thread permeated by the nut-jobs from Current Events.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 units from Ft. Hood just deployed to Korea in the last few days. Probably nothing.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The verbal assaults from Pyongyang have set financial markets in South Korea, Asia's fourth largest economy, on edge.

South Korean shares slid on Friday, with foreign investors selling their biggest daily volume in nearly 20 months, hurt after aggressive easing from the Bank of Japan sent the yen reeling, as well as by the tension over North Korea.

"In the past, (markets) recovered quickly from the impact from any North Korea-related event, but recent threats from North Korea are stronger and the impact may therefore not disappear quickly," Vice Finance Minister Choo Kyung-ho said.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=KRW&to=USD&view=1Y
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