| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nuthatch
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:05 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Libyan conflict was supposed to be over in "days, not weeks" |
Who in the world thought that in a country the size of Libya? Some idiot/shill (many shills know the real truth and are certainly not idiots) on CNN? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-intlJA3nK4 |
You totally took his quote out of context. Go back and read the full statement. He was talking about handing over primary operational control and air cover responsibilities to European forces, not complete involvement.
Your failing to understand the full statement and posting an out of context sound clip (edited to remove the first part of his statement) relegates your post to the ash heap of discussion.
| Quote: |
| I think any reasonable individual can see it. No need to debate foolish blather, nor re-post it. |
No, back it up. You make the claim, you back it up. The claims I have made I have backed up with technical detail. Please explain where I am wrong. Let's have an informed debate about this where both sides can present their evidence. Please explain the ranges of North Korean artillery, please elaborate how NK's decrepit Air Force will be able to stand against the US. Detail the composition of North Korea's armored forces- you know makes, models, and capabilities. Please demonstrate the logistics necessary to deploy 130,000 commandos on Jeolla beaches and whether North Korea has that capability.
There are some sensible claims to make- the challenge of penetrating NK's air defenses. The chance that NK could have a fair chance of success in a small-medium scale incident and that many of its outdated systems may function more effectively if used for limited means. The potential to hit commercial shipping. Random escalations that could spiral out of control and give NK a moderate early edge.
But a lot of the claims on this thread are just utter horse dung. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
I found this on another website and thought it was quite interesting:
| Quote: |
| "I'm stationed on a ballistic missile defense destroyer. We tracked the last two missiles that NK launched while we were on our way back from the Persian Gulf. We couldn't shoot them down even if we had intel that they were heading straight for LA. The flight path their missiles followed were unlike any one we have ever seen before making them impossible to shoot down. Our country's missile defense systems work by calculating where to intercept the threat based on pre-established flight trajectories. We track the first 20 seconds of the missiles flight and determine where they will land, and if they are a threat, we can create ballistic solutions for our outbound missiles to intercept. Problem is, the missiles NK just launched had multiple stages of flight, where they changed speed and altitude making it impossible to predict where they were heading or where to intercept. Each missile they launched had unique flight path characteristics leading us to believe they were either testing two types of missiles or the more logical explanation, one or both of them were malfunctioning. Regardless, they know how our defense systems work and they're trying to beat it...I'd say if you were worried, head inland, other than that, it's going to be a **** show..." |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes of course they can track Missions to Mars but can not track a Nork missle. Sorry just internet B.S.
The fact is , is that Kim might just barely holding on.
Chinese media has really played this situation differently, slanting it more to being Kim's fault.
There are hints. The new Chinese ambassador said on Friday that there is more honest trust and confidence in U.S Chinese relations right now.
The U.S. presence in North Asia has led to one of the most peacful times in its recent history. China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan have all gotten rich and the wealth is spreading, out into Indonesia, The Phillipines and elsewhere.
The U.S. has invested billions in establishing this balance, China knows and to some extent appreciates that fact.
Now who is China closer to the U.S. it old friend, or the Kim family who were originally installed by the Soviets.
The media in China seems to be protraying Kim as a little boy in over his head. They would prefer his uncle to be in power I think.
Just speculation but they are starving up North and that does not help China in anyway. They do NOt want an arms race right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
javis
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Libyan conflict was supposed to be over in "days, not weeks" |
Who in the world thought that in a country the size of Libya? Some idiot/shill (many shills know the real truth and are certainly not idiots) on CNN? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-intlJA3nK4 |
You totally took his quote out of context. Go back and read the full statement. He was talking about handing over primary operational control and air cover responsibilities to European forces, not complete involvement.
Your failing to understand the full statement and posting an out of context sound clip (edited to remove the first part of his statement) relegates your post to the ash heap of discussion.
| Quote: |
| I think any reasonable individual can see it. No need to debate foolish blather, nor re-post it. |
No, back it up. You make the claim, you back it up. The claims I have made I have backed up with technical detail. Please explain where I am wrong. Let's have an informed debate about this where both sides can present their evidence. Please explain the ranges of North Korean artillery, please elaborate how NK's decrepit Air Force will be able to stand against the US. Detail the composition of North Korea's armored forces- you know makes, models, and capabilities. Please demonstrate the logistics necessary to deploy 130,000 commandos on Jeolla beaches and whether North Korea has that capability.
There are some sensible claims to make- the challenge of penetrating NK's air defenses. The chance that NK could have a fair chance of success in a small-medium scale incident and that many of its outdated systems may function more effectively if used for limited means. The potential to hit commercial shipping. Random escalations that could spiral out of control and give NK a moderate early edge.
But a lot of the claims on this thread are just utter horse dung. |
I don't think anyone who had access to up to date info on that would be interested in having the debate on dave's esl forums. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rollo wrote: |
Yes of course they can track Missions to Mars but can not track a Nork missle. Sorry just internet B.S.
|
Next time, read more carefully. He said that they could track it, just not predict where they would land or intercept.
Since that site is filled with current military and veterans, I'd say that his info is likely correct. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| madoka wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
Yes of course they can track Missions to Mars but can not track a Nork missle. Sorry just internet B.S.
|
Next time, read more carefully. He said that they could track it, just not predict where they would land or intercept because their missiles were likely malfunctioning.
Since that site is filled with current military and veterans, I'd say that his info is likely correct. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well the Chinese foreign minister said yesterday and I paraphrase. china will not tolerate troublemaking on it's door step. That was directed at the Norks. Seems Beijing is saying that its time for the adults to take over.
I think they just gave their okay to replace lil Kim. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steve Herman's Twitter Feed wrote: |
| JoongAng Ilbo quotes gov't source saying increased activity of workers and vehicles detected at tunnel of #DPRK #nuclear test site. |
| Quote: |
| Gov't source to JoongAng: "We were also tipped off that Pyongyang would soon carry out an additional #nuclear test." |
There is certainly no letting up from NK this time around! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MoneyMike
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The scary thing about this situation is how NK is continuously proving it's a one trick pony. Threats and bluster don't work to get you what you want? More threats and bluster. Didn't work? Why don't we try more threats and bluster?
I'd be more reassured if they had something other than escalation to fall back on, but it doesn't look like they've got anything else in the playbook. Where do they go from here? They can't just keep doing nuclear tests.
It doesn't seem like Obama is going to back down, and the Repubs would have a field day with him if he went soft on lil' Kim. So what's the next step? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
The next step is removal of Kim, probably on the urging of the Chinese.
From this point on it is a matter of time. The Chinese seem to be done with him and that's that.
A spokesman for the CCP said last night that China was tired of being manipulated by the North Koreans.
That is strong language.
Long term who knows but without Chinese support North Korea collapses. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Well, one of the next steps for the U.S. is to send Secretary of State John Kerry to Seoul this week; China says only way to realize denuclearization is to have dialogue with all parties concerned; NK suspends Kaesong operations and prepares for celebrations of its founder, Kim Il Sung; South Korea's defense ministry now denies that nuclear test by Norks looks imminent; while Japan may be readying its missile-defense systems just in case ... http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-korea-north-idUSBRE93408020130408 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saram_
Joined: 13 May 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rollo wrote: |
The next step is removal of Kim, probably on the urging of the Chinese.
From this point on it is a matter of time. The Chinese seem to be done with him and that's that.
A spokesman for the CCP said last night that China was tired of being manipulated by the North Koreans.
That is strong language.
Long term who knows but without Chinese support North Korea collapses. |
The Chinese may be distancing itself from NK publicly but it still and always will have a place at the top table in NK politics. NK doesn't do much without China's backing..
China cannot be trusted really.. and if push comes to shove they will no doubt give the North plenty of support whether knowingly or not to the greater international community.
Most likely China is on the phone to the North Korean leadership saying keep it going guys ye are doing a great job..
Lets not be so naive as to think China has had enough of NK and is going to be more supportive of the US.
NK provides the perfect buffer for China and it will do everything in it's power to keep the stalemate as is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh I dont see many changes in the setup just I think there will be a new boss.
the buffer, the balance works well for eveyone. I see Kim giving up some power and taking a backseat, they may keep him as a figure head but it is clear Big Red is highly displeased with him. Or he has an "accident"
The chinese are very careful with their language , so for them to be this blunt means a lot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
