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If War Breaks Out.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Free for everyone but Canadians. Really you would rather die than pay to live??? I think that was the airlines and as long as you got out alive why care where they drop you.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long would it take the US and South Korea to mop up North Korea. The main concern is the artillery that would occur in Seoul the first part of the war. Another potential concern is Anti-westerner Koreans possibly doing things to Westerners.
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rainman3277



Joined: 13 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Another potential concern is Anti-westerner Koreans possibly doing things to Westerners.


the enemy of my enemy more likely
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...bombs are falling, family businesses are threatened, relatives being conscripted and heading off to combat, economy in peril, children afraid...and Koreans are going to spend their time seeking out English teachers and trying to carry out acts of violence against them??????

Man people can be narcissistic sometimes. Sorry, but I don't think we'll be the focus of their thoughts in such a situation. I know, I know, we all believe that NETs are front and center in Korean lives and should be so, but really, there are limits.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Steelrails makes a good point about the military often being the moderates. it was the younger Soviet middle level officers who pushed for the end of communist rule in the U.S.S.R.

Apparently it is Baby Kim's uncle who is the real power, and he is owned by China. He is not crazy nor stupid according to all accounts.

The North's military is also in sort of a bubble. there was a story told a few years ago about a Nork general telling a Western visitor that the N.K. army would have an easy time conquering the U.s. because all the American soldiers were fat and gay. Scary to think they are that out of touch.

yeah there is no where to run. The U.s. will get the Westerners out even if you have a maple leaf sewn on your clothes. Be calm follow instructions.


And this goes to my new theory - that this is Rodman's fault! They invited a star athlete to the DPRK, and they got a freak. I'm guessing they figure the US has deteriorated so far, that it'd be a cake walk. Laughing


Steelrails wrote:
So...bombs are falling, family businesses are threatened, relatives being conscripted and heading off to combat, economy in peril, children afraid...and Koreans are going to spend their time seeking out English teachers and trying to carry out acts of violence against them??????

Man people can be narcissistic sometimes. Sorry, but I don't think we'll be the focus of their thoughts in such a situation. I know, I know, we all believe that NETs are front and center in Korean lives and should be so, but really, there are limits.



To be honest, I think there's a bit of merit in it. I think that war gives a good cover for revenge killings, and the like. And while most NETs haven't pissed off enough ppl for that, there's always the possibility that they could become a commodity for exchange. "Hey, I know where a few Americans are living. If you let my family go, I'll walk you over to where their apt is."

But, I'd say it's the least of someone's worries in this conflict we're supposing. Avoiding bombings, and finding food and water - those would be first on my mind.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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nuthatch



Joined: 21 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so much ignorance of nuclear power/history:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/as-north-korea-blusters-south-breaks-taboo-on-nuclear-talk.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&hp
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:

To be honest, I think there's a bit of merit in it. I think that war gives a good cover for revenge killings, and the like. And while most NETs haven't pissed off enough ppl for that, there's always the possibility that they could become a commodity for exchange. "Hey, I know where a few Americans are living. If you let my family go, I'll walk you over to where their apt is."


I doubt that. That would instantly mark them as collaborators, and I doubt very much people would bet the farm on the Norks being the victors, especially if the US Army was still in town.

There would be total martial law and evacuations, mass conscription, everything organizing around the war. I doubt very much anyone would have time for much of that, beyond perhaps, dedicated Nork agents who might do such things, but certainly not Joe Kim 6 pack. Maybe one incident of some deranged college student who finally has access to a gun, but then again they'd be more likely to start shooting the dudes who bullied them in high school.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atwood wrote:
And what is your proof for that? Are you forgetting how many leaders who might oppose or challenge him "disappeared"?

Even if he were a figurehead, that would make him a pawn of the military, not exactly a scenario that brings to mind "cooler heads will prevail."

Not necessarily a pawn of the military, but a regent of the group consolidated under Kim Jong Il.
There have been several analysts and people connected with the Kim family (including his own brother) that say he isn't actually in control.

Regrading the 'disappearances'; i don't recall 'many'. More like one or two, but correct me if I'm wrong. Some of the military's leaders resented Jong Un's power steal because he had never served in the military and he was too young and inexperienced. But, according to news reports the core stronghold of powerful leaders that surrounded Jong Il now surround Jong Un.
Kim Jong Il's sister, brother-in-law (Kim Kyung Hee and Chang(Jang) Sung Taek) have been reported to be the ones holding everything together.
Chang Sung Taek is a leading voice in the National Defence Commission, and head of the Ministry of Administration.
Kyung Hee has a lot of clout as a leading member of two different Assemblies.


Last edited by crescent on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Threequalseven



Joined: 08 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
How long would it take the US and South Korea to mop up North Korea.


There is actually a strategic reason for all this blustering by the North. One article I read put is succinctly, "it's better to be hated than to be ignored." They don't want to end up getting "mopped up" like Iraq or Libya. If they can prove that they can use nuclear arms, it forces western powers (i.e. the USA) to negotiate with them instead of just going into the North and taking over everything.

That's why everyone is soiling their pants about Iran, too. It's not the actual threat of nuclear war that people in power are worried about. They just don't want these rouge states to have any kind of control over their own resources or finances. If their forced to negotiate, then the states of NK or Iran will still maintain some independence from global private enterprise.

If anything actually did happen between the North and the South, I would firmly believe that some kind of agreement between NK and the USA had already taken place and the theatrics are just there to keep the average Joe in line.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:

To be honest, I think there's a bit of merit in it. I think that war gives a good cover for revenge killings, and the like. And while most NETs haven't pissed off enough ppl for that, there's always the possibility that they could become a commodity for exchange. "Hey, I know where a few Americans are living. If you let my family go, I'll walk you over to where their apt is."


I doubt that. That would instantly mark them as collaborators, and I doubt very much people would bet the farm on the Norks being the victors, especially if the US Army was still in town.

There would be total martial law and evacuations, mass conscription, everything organizing around the war. I doubt very much anyone would have time for much of that, beyond perhaps, dedicated Nork agents who might do such things, but certainly not Joe Kim 6 pack. Maybe one incident of some deranged college student who finally has access to a gun, but then again they'd be more likely to start shooting the dudes who bullied them in high school.


For my "theory" to actually happen, Seoul would have to change hands. I doubt that the North would be able to get ground units into Seoul and hold it (like they did years back), but if they did, I could see that sort of thing playing out (as it did during the k-war).

We both know though - that aint going to happen.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threequalseven wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
How long would it take the US and South Korea to mop up North Korea.


There is actually a strategic reason for all this blustering by the North. One article I read put is succinctly, "it's better to be hated than to be ignored." They don't want to end up getting "mopped up" like Iraq or Libya. If they can prove that they can use nuclear arms, it forces western powers (i.e. the USA) to negotiate with them instead of just going into the North and taking over everything.

That's why everyone is soiling their pants about Iran, too. It's not the actual threat of nuclear war that people in power are worried about. They just don't want these rouge states to have any kind of control over their own resources or finances. If their forced to negotiate, then the states of NK or Iran will still maintain some independence from global private enterprise.

If anything actually did happen between the North and the South, I would firmly believe that some kind of agreement between NK and the USA had already taken place and the theatrics are just there to keep the average Joe in line.

Libya is more to the point since Iraq was believed to have WMDs (at least by some).

Iran is considered much more of a threat that NK. Obviously, the ME is more strategically important due to oil and then there's Iran's continued threats to Israel. It's not that they don't want rogue states to have control over their finances. it's that they don't want these states to use such funds to continue to finance nuclear expansion and terrorism.

Regarding nuclear weapons and NK, the U.S. isn't going to negotiate. The nuclear program has to go before the U.S. is going to change its stance on NK.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
atwood wrote:
And what is your proof for that? Are you forgetting how many leaders who might oppose or challenge him "disappeared"?

Even if he were a figurehead, that would make him a pawn of the military, not exactly a scenario that brings to mind "cooler heads will prevail."

Not necessarily a pawn of the military, but a regent of the group consolidated under Kim Jong Il.
There have been several analysts and people connected with the Kim family (including his own brother) that say he isn't actually in control.

Regrading the 'disappearances'; i don't recall 'many'. More like one or two, but correct me if I'm wrong. Some of the military's leaders resented Jong Un's power steal because he had never served in the military and he was too young and inexperienced. But, according to news reports the core stronghold of powerful leaders that surrounded Jong Il now surround Jong Un.
Kim Jong Il's sister, brother-in-law (Kim Kyung Hee and Chang(Jang) Sung Taek) have been reported to be the ones holding everything together.
Chang Sung Taek is a leading voice in the National Defence Commission, and head of the Ministry of Administration.
Kyung Hee has a lot of clout as a leading member of two different Assemblies.

What I read that those who were thought to be a threat to the group headed by the uncle were quietly taken out and that there were several such persons.

This all sounds good in theory, but he's still in charge. Why think he can't disregard their advice if he so chooses?
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atwood wrote:

This all sounds good in theory, but he's still in charge. Why think he can't disregard their advice if he so chooses?

But you also have no proof. If you look at the history nature of the north's antics while Jong Il was in power, things have not changed. The Supreme Leader has changed, but the core supporters have not. That's why I agree with the side that says he's being guided, not followed.
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