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Korea's Secret History before annxexation by Japan
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shakuhachi



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:13 pm    Post subject: Korea's Secret History before annxexation by Japan Reply with quote

For people that watch Korean drama's, you couldnt be faulted for thinking that the Choson Era of Korean history was a golden age, and if only Japan had not come in and ruined it, then Korea would have lived in peace and prosperity.

But this thinking defies the reality that Korea was a backward region and a miserable slave society.


This was the true state of Koreans in the Choson Era.


Before the Japanese introduced medicine in Korea, Koreans would cure Malaria by writing their names on their feet.


Pre-Japanese Korean medicine. This childs parents are trying to cure this childs disease by throwing away this straw doll. Various diseases could be 'cured' by this 'method'. The average Korea lifespan at this time was around 27 years old.


Typical Korean Woman of the pre-annexation period.


It was common for women to walk around bare breasted in Korea at the time, as in Africa.


A korean woman and her child enjoy the fruits of Japanese 'oppression'. Her child will have a normal, western world lifespan now.


The center of Seoul, Namdemun, Circa 1880. Thatched buildings and shops.


The common people of the Choson Era lived in a state slavery, if not in name then in practice. Picture is of Namdemun.


Namdemun after being 'ruined' by the Japanese.


Unifcation with Japan came in 1910. This is a photo of Seoul in 1937.


Massive Japanese investment created industry where there was none. The raised living standards and provided housing. The landlords and oppressors of common people lost their legal right to lord it over others.


The worlds largest Hydroelectric generator (at the time) was built in Korea b the Japanese, at the expense of the Japanese. This contributed much to Korea's development.

Koreans have a rosy view of the Choson Era history and therefore blame the Japanese for 'ruining' it. As foreigners, we need to take a more balanced view rather than simply accepting Korean Claims at face value. Everything should be examines and judged on the evidence, not hearsay.

This thread is dedicated to JacktheCat, who bravely started an interesting thread, only to have it derailed.
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phaedrus



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Not everyone lived like this after the Japanese came.

I don't now.

The upper classes have always had an easy ride.



This is 1994. Not so posh for grandma.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans were "backward" for thousands of years before the Japanese enlightened them? Confused
Korea should be grateful to Japan?

I can barely stomach that logic about the Chinese influence in Korea.

Materialistic gains don't compensate for the cultural sense of loss and the systematic destruction of a people's sense of self by an outsider's attempt at forced assimilation.

Koreans understand themselves to have been occupied and focus on the negative aspects because it serves to help preserve their nationhood in a region dominated by two larger, imperialistic powers.

Should Americans learn in school about all the benefits brought about by the slave trade prior to emancipation? It doesn't serve their interest to do so, so they don't.

The same is the case with other nation's education of their youth.

Let's not be so naive. What do we expect?

You say: "As foreigners, we need to take a more balanced view rather than simply accepting Korean claims at face value."

Why?
I accept Korean claims about their history to be in fact their understanding of their history, their story. I don't make the leap to thinking it's an unbiased, exhaustive, accurate account of what actually happened. And I don't think many others do either, do they?

Just as I don't challenge Americans for believing that baseball and basketball were invented in their country by their countrymen when they are oblivious to the strong Canadian connections to the origins of those games.

Go about reflecting about history with the objectivity ideals of an historian if you want, just skip the attitude.
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That said, I find it fascinating that the Portuguese-totting hot peppers were first popular in Korea not because of their inherent appeal to the Korean palate, but for their value in preserving vegetables more regularly than the other (also red) less spicy spices used for at least a thousand years before.
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Butterfly



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Practically every country in the world has been influenced and effected by others.

Good point VanIslander, America would not be what it is without the slavery of Africans and genocide of the indigenous people of the continent. All Americans know this, but it's not something that is openly talked about that much is it?

Don't make out Koreans don't know, they do. They just don't like to rap about it with you too much. I don't blame them myself.
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lush72



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: I am Penalty Kick!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...

Do you have any more photos? Those were really good-
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ohahakehte



Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The State of Denial

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the racism, pseudo-intellectual bull shoite, and unabashed apologetics for brutal imperialists conquests on dave's ESL is unbelievable. i guess it makes sense, you get less backlash if you're behind a computer screen and no one can see your face. you people are something else
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ulsanchris



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion and some of those photos have already been done and shown on here.

If you really want to "debate" it again do a search.

My two cents.

Korea was poorly ruled by a corrupt ruling class. There were some koreans who wanted to modernize but they were held in check by conservatives. Some who did want to modernize sided with the Japanese.

THe Japanese did help modernize Korea however the Japanese occupation was not benevolent. They were hard and cruel occupiers who have little mercy for Koreans.
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fidel



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Yes, life was all fun and games when the Japanese colonized Korea. Summary executions were all the rage.

Shakuhachi, you are obviously one of those teachers in Korea with a fake degree, and probably didn't even finish middle school. I suggest you leave such historical discussions to those with intelligence, and stick to discussing WWE, or talk shows. Your in-depth revelations of the "truth" makes you look like the yokel, that you no doubt are.

Random photo's don't make a thesis, nor prove or disprove anything. If you feel the need to assert your assumed superiority by degrading Koreans so be it. But use your head and give intelligent opinions. I know that it's probable that you don't have this capacity, so stick to things you know.





Like glue sniffing and butane abuse.
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HardyandTiny



Joined: 03 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This post didn't make sense the first time 'round.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pictures are fascinating.

Anybody have some of the millions of Korean dogs slaughtered to clothe the Japanese in their war against Russia? Many species went extinct and I'd like to see a photo of one or two breeds. (Jindo's were spared by special agreement which limited them to the island of Jindo only).
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shakuhachi



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
es, life was all fun and games when the Japanese colonized Korea. Summary executions were all the rage.

Shakuhachi, you are obviously one of those teachers in Korea with a fake degree, and probably didn't even finish middle school. I suggest you leave such historical discussions to those with intelligence, and stick to discussing WWE, or talk shows. Your in-depth revelations of the "truth" makes you look like the yokel, that you no doubt are.

Random photo's don't make a thesis, nor prove or disprove anything. If you feel the need to assert your assumed superiority by degrading Koreans so be it. But use your head and give intelligent opinions. I know that it's probable that you don't have this capacity, so stick to things you know.





Like glue sniffing and butane abuse.


I can see that the picture you posted came from the overseas korean history project. Does that mean you are an overseas korean? In that case your emotional response has to be expected. I wonder what the context was for that picture you posted? Maybe those people tied up were murderers, and maybe the soldiers in the pictures arent even Japanese. My pictures on the other hand are obviously of Korea.

I think its you who is looking down on others. Nor do I think there is anything wrong with watching WWE. If you dont like the pics then deal with it, because they reflect Korea as it was.

Quote:
This discussion and some of those photos have already been done and shown on here.


3 out of 12 were on a previous thread, and you cant see them on that thread because the links have gone dead.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fidel wrote:
Yes, life was all fun and games when the Japanese colonized Korea. Summary executions were all the rage.


Explain how this was any better than the summary executions that used to exist in Korea for crimes such as speaking ill of a land owner or learning more than you were entitled to by government order. Statistical comparisons would be nice.

I noticed that you didn't state that people in the uniforms were Japanese but rather left that as an impression. You may be surprised to learn where those soldiers were originally from.

Quote:
Shakuhachi, you are obviously one of those teachers in Korea with a fake degree, and probably didn't even finish middle school. I suggest you leave such historical discussions to those with intelligence, and stick to discussing WWE, or talk shows. Your in-depth revelations of the "truth" makes you look like the yokel, that you no doubt are.


You go off on an attack without actually attacking the evidence. Such an attack suggests you are unable to prove the message wrong, so you are trying to discredit the messenger.

Personally, most of the pictures cover information I already knew except the topless ones. I'm actually surprised by that. But I'm not angry like you, but rather I am now further enlightened. Join me in this collective enlightenment.

Quote:
Random photo's don't make a thesis, nor prove or disprove anything. If you feel the need to assert your assumed superiority by degrading Koreans so be it. But use your head and give intelligent opinions. I know that it's probable that you don't have this capacity, so stick to things you know.


It's not a "superiority", but rather "statement of fact". Those of us who have done even the basics of research in Korea's history beyond the sugary tourist version of events all know that Korea was a literal hell hole and the majority of people welcomed Japanese liberation. The TV dramas are curious to watch, but are not representative of what life was really like.

If you don't like what is being said, then explain why it's false or being distorted. Simple name calling suggests you are unable to do that which is to be expected since what's being posted is what life was like.

Quote:
Like glue sniffing and butane abuse.


Your masterful insults clearly dwarf my mightiest of past efforts.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://koreaphoto.hp.infoseek.co.jp/
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ryleeys



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Sakuhachi to some extent. There were benefits to Japanese colonialization of Korea. But I also agree with Van Islander that we don't necessarily need to play that up in a country that also suffered by the same hand that fed it. The first rule of history is there are always sixty different ways to look at any single event, much less a series of events that took place over 35 years.
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Lyrt



Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: Somewhere in France

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We also need to remember what Japan was before its annexation of Korea.
Edit: I only post links to the first images, they f.uckup the whole page...

Osaka
http://membres.lycos.fr/lyrt/osaka.jpg

Edo (1863-1864) + a nice photoshop work
http://membres.lycos.fr/lyrt/Edo.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lyrt/EdoColor.jpg

Ginza street of Tokyo, circa 1890:


Kobe, 1890:



Yokohama, 1860ĄŻ:


Hakodate, circa 1890:


Nagasaki and Dejima, 1860ĄŻ:



LetĄŻs not forget about Pyongyang after its destruction by Japan:






Truth is that Japan imposed a Meiji revolution on Korea. Like In Japan, those who opposed revolution were repressed, like some of the ruling class or some farmers unhappy with land redistribution reforms. Truth is a lot of Koreans enjoyed improvements in their daily life.


Last edited by Lyrt on Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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