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too many in a class...

 
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alphalfa



Joined: 12 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:21 am    Post subject: too many in a class... Reply with quote

What's the regulated number of students allowed in any hogwon class? Does anybody have any idea? I was surprised once again to find 17 sixth grade students in one class! I made it clear to the director of the school that I cannot teach that many students in a 45 minute class. The reply I received was 'adjustments in class size will be made at the end of the month.' Is the hogwan in the wrong here in allowing that many students in a class? I never had that many students in any of my previous classes at other hogwans. I let it be known to them I was not happy with this issue.
I must take a stand. My Korean co-workers have said nothing. So typical.
I hate it when hagwon owners take advantage of people like this. Qiutting is not going to solve this issue.

alphalfa
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:30 am    Post subject: well.. Reply with quote

I would rather be paid 2 million won a month and have my airfare and apartment paid for, rather than $2000 a month back at home and have rent to worry about AND have 28+ students.
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: too many in a class... Reply with quote

alphalfa wrote:
What's the regulated number of students allowed in any hogwon class?


The number of chairs they can fit into the room.

Quote:
I was surprised once again to find 17 sixth grade students in one class!


So? I used to teach 21 in one class. Though I got extra pay.

Quote:
Is the hogwan in the wrong here in allowing that many students in a class?


No.

Quote:
I let it be known to them I was not happy with this issue.
I must take a stand.


Much better than taking a stand on something that matters over an issue that won't make you look like a whiner. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
My Korean co-workers have said nothing. So typical.


Hell, we're white and we aren't backing you up either. Are we typical too?

Quote:
I hate it when hagwon owners take advantage of people like this. Qiutting is not going to solve this issue.


I can see the whining teacher part, but the hagwon owner taking advantage of you I'm not seeing. Was there another part to this story you didn't tell us?
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My perfect class size would be 8-12. Nothing worse than too many or too few students. actually I haven't heard that many complaints from teachers about over-populated classes. I find directors/academic supervisors keep the class numbers low because they want to keep their korean teachers happy. Lower class numbers mean more separate classes which means more work for the korean teachers. I had classes of 30 factory workers in Japan. It went well only because they were motivated adults. Can't imagine more than 15 Korean kids. Too much like work!!!
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not an optimal hakwon class size, but there's seriously not much you can do about it. It all reflects back to the hakwon being a business, not a literal school.

I used to have 50-student classes last year.
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alphalfa



Joined: 12 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:04 pm    Post subject: a rebuttal.. Reply with quote

The contract says class sizes will not exceed 14 students. Is this whining to point this out to them? I think not. I was hoping this issue (among many others ) would generate a discussion on regulations and standards hagwans must follow. The feedback that followed was not helpful. It appears hagwans are self regulated with little or no accountability. There
must be regulations upon which all employees can refer to (to) ensure fair working practices.

alphalfa
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://efl-law.com/

You can take your issue to the Ministry of Labor, as well. But there's little you can expect people to do here when nearly all of us(myself included) have been burned by a hakwon in some manner or another. Usually, the solution is to get out of teaching at a hakwon.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:54 pm    Post subject: student limit Reply with quote

Well, you should have said it was in your contract in your original post.

If you REALLY Rolling Eyes feel strongly about it..... just take your contract, highlight the part in question, and show your boss.
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kimcheeking
Guest




PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop being a baby, it's not that big of a deal. It's one class, not all of your classes. If you are teaching anywhere, it is not uncommon to have large classes occasionally if not regularily.

Why is it that you can not teach this many students in 45 minutes? could you do it in 60? or 75? The length of time has little to do with it. Your effectiveness may be reduced but teaching, and more importantly learning can be accomplished in that situation.

Just alter your lesson plans and be well prepared. THis si not worth fighting about.
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katydid



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you have a surplus of three students. The director said the class size will be adjusted at the end of the month, which is what...11 days? Just try to suck it up until then. It's not a huge overenrollment, where there are 25 students crammed into a room.
You could point out that your contract says you'll teach no more than 14 students, but the way I see it, having more students is better for you in the long run, cause it means your hagwan isn't in any danger of going under.

Just my two cents...
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dominic



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:48 pm    Post subject: typical Reply with quote

he's saying, something that you guys are obviously missing, he's trying to say that most korean co teachers dont back up foreign teachers in any type of issue, especially if it's going to make them lose face or make them look bad in front of the king owner. Korean teachers almost never back up foreign teachers, most cnat argue with me about that because it's totally true
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps they don't back up the foreign teacher because the foreign teacher is wrong. Hell, let's look at this thread for example.

The person is upset that the school is breaking the imaginary law limiting class size and the Korean teachers won't back him up.

Oh wait! Such a law doesn't exist. He's just whining. Hell, we're not backing him up and we're foreigners too.
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Derrek



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:41 am    Post subject: Just warn Reply with quote

Just warn your director that you feel the number in class is hurting the ability to teach them all, and you may lose students. Not that it will help any.

I taught a class of 23, and the numbers dropped because I was so busy trying to do "crowd control" with some of the naughty boys in the class. Some of the better kids got out of the class, and I can't blame them. My hagwon has a bit of a discipline problem with some of the kids here, in my opinion. They've tried, but there is only so much that can be done before there are fears of upsetting the kid or the parents.

In the end, it's easier to make the foreign teacher look bad. Discipline can be difficult when you can't speak the language, and the kids know the worst that can happen to them is a seat by the front desk. If I could talk to the parent directly, I think it would be a different story.
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thinker



Joined: 10 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had a similar class towards the end of my contract, I was told the max was 12, and then i had 15, but there were only 11 desks that really fit into the tiny classroom. plus half the kids were brought in from another lower level class> > > i had to turn side ways to walk between the desks (left me open to dungshims) which were end to end to the point where the door could barely be opened~
despite this and the fact that the kids were of various skill levels they were actually pretty good after getting settled in the clutter> > >and i didn't even need to send any of them out Very Happy

the worst part was that there was no air exchange system and no window, the only way to get fresh air in was to have the air con always on, but of course the kids always complain that it's too cold. my boss opens up a new school with absolutely no thought that people will actually be in it~ Mad the korean teachers agreed upon these points and loved to complain about the boss, but never to the boss, and i always watched my complaints in front of them cause i knew one of them would always make sure it passed the boss' ears~they are generally very passive and afraid of the boss even though it's much easier for them to get another job, they just endure all the crap thrown at them, and they do get just as much crap as we do,but just do nothing about it~hence it continues Confused

i complained, and after getting 2 new students they opened a new class~Wink
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Seatangle



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Left of Center

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It appears hagwans are self regulated with little or no accountability.


You've hit the nail on the head here. The lack of accountability is, I believe, largely to blame for the problems in this industry.

Unfortunately, the others are right in that there isn't much you can do. I haven't had this exact problem, but have faced a number of other situations that are in the grey area of what is legal/allowable/moral etc. it is frustrating to know there is little I can do to make changes. If nothing else, Korea has given me lots of practice in sucking up and dealing with stuff.

Best of luck to you.
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