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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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 Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
In my experience, most of the time when a Korean 'treats' you to dinner it has less to do with generosity and more to do with control. Yes, they pay which is nice, but you must sit there for as long as they choose, they will order for you, they will force you to drink as much as they want to drink and then you must do whatever they want to do afterwards. Not always, but this is often the case. Sometimes it really is out of generosity, I'm not denying that.
Having said that, people in their 20s in every culture are cheap. Now that I'm in my 30s my friends and I may split the bill, but we just throw in equal amounts. Or one of us just pays full stop, whatever. We're more financially secure. I think many of you are comparing 30-50 year old Koreans to 22 year old ESL teachers. Even a 22 year old Korean will likely still live with mom and dad, have no student debt and an allowance from the parents to go with their salary if they have one. It's just not the same.
In any event, I think it's just indicative of our different cultures. The West is more egalitarian while the East is more hierarchical. Many people don't appreciate when others pay for them, it disrupts the equality of the group. It has little to do with being cheap, it's just about being equal. |
I'm not sure about the others, but I was comparing our Korean friends to our international friends. The majority of our friends are close to our age (both Korean and international) so there's no age gap between the groups. Our Korean friends certainly don't offer to pick up a dinner bill in order to 'control' us. I've never had anyone in Korea or anywhere else for that matter try to 'control' me over dinner before, but if they did I surely wouldn't be calling them my friend.
This is just from our experience of course. I've been here for quite a while and have met lots of generous people from all over the world. It just seems like it is more common for the South Koreans I have gotten to know while living here to be more generous with their money than my friends from back home or foreigners who we've met here.
Also, I totally agree with the 'inner circle' thing. My first couple years here I don't think I would have had the view point that South Koreans were overly generous. Since expanding the number of Korean friends I hang out with and having a whole bunch of in-laws living near by, my opinion has changed completely. I feel like my Canadian family and friends say the PC thing much more often and appear to be friendlier because of it, but I think if I was in a tough situation and needed assistance my Korean friends/family would be more willing to go out of their way to help (not only financially). |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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OP, you've got a good friend. I don't think it is relevant that she/he is Korean.
I do think people are more likely to lend money to the same sex. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| thebearofbundang wrote: |
This is just from our experience of course. I've been here for quite a while and have met lots of generous people from all over the world. It just seems like it is more common for the South Koreans I have gotten to know while living here to be more generous with their money than my friends from back home or foreigners who we've met here.
Also, I totally agree with the 'inner circle' thing. My first couple years here I don't think I would have had the view point that South Koreans were overly generous. Since expanding the number of Korean friends I hang out with and having a whole bunch of in-laws living near by, my opinion has changed completely. I feel like my Canadian family and friends say the PC thing much more often and appear to be friendlier because of it, but I think if I was in a tough situation and needed assistance my Korean friends/family would be more willing to go out of their way to help (not only financially). |
I also noticed this, there are some great Korean people out there.
Another point, Koreans can be more generous with their kids specially when their children are adults. I was really happy when I was making 5.50 an hour and going to university in the states and my father wanted to charge me rent.  |
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Waygeek
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| In my experience, most of the time when a Korean 'treats' you to dinner it has less to do with generosity and more to do with control. |
Care to provide an instance of this? Personally, I think it has more to do with age, and station. If I'm eating with an older person, or superior, they like to pay. But I always pick up the tab next time, much to their chagrin. Trick is to go up and pay when they're off on a toilet break  |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
In my experience, most of the time when a Korean 'treats' you to dinner it has less to do with generosity and more to do with control. Yes, they pay which is nice, but you must sit there for as long as they choose, they will order for you, they will force you to drink as much as they want to drink and then you must do whatever they want to do afterwards. Not always, but this is often the case. Sometimes it really is out of generosity, I'm not denying that.
Having said that, people in their 20s in every culture are cheap. Now that I'm in my 30s my friends and I may split the bill, but we just throw in equal amounts. Or one of us just pays full stop, whatever. We're more financially secure. I think many of you are comparing 30-50 year old Koreans to 22 year old ESL teachers. Even a 22 year old Korean will likely still live with mom and dad, have no student debt and an allowance from the parents to go with their salary if they have one. It's just not the same.
In any event, I think it's just indicative of our different cultures. The West is more egalitarian while the East is more hierarchical. Many people don't appreciate when others pay for them, it disrupts the equality of the group. It has little to do with being cheap, it's just about being equal. |
Meh, I think it's more communal. I help you today, and you'll help me at some point. The West is far more individualistic, and people worry far more about the minutiae of how they will be repaid.
Moreover, this false sense of equality is totally absurd. If my friend pulls in $70,000 a year and I pull in $15,000, things aren't going to be equal, regardless of how you split a bill. Why not let your friend pay occasionally?
Regardless, having spent my formative years in extremely diverse environs, with extremely diverse groups of friends, I'd say that the splitting of bills down to the penny is a uniquely Western (white) trait. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| thebearofbundang wrote: |
| Another observation I have made during my time living here is that our Koreans friends are far more likely to pick up the bill at dinner, a night out etc. I almost feel embarrassed when we go out with my international friends and they take 10 minutes to divide up tabs/bills from the evening out. She usually just tells me to pick it up and next time they can. Next time out the exact same process is repeated. I of course explain to her it's a different 'culture' and remind her that there are plenty of things from her culture that I don't understand. I think this is one of the reasons (along with a lot is ESL teaching worried about paying off student loans back home) that leads to the generalization from many Koreans that foreigners are cheap and unwilling to share even amongst friends. |
i love the korean style of one-two people paying for the meal. if i'm ever with foreigners who insist on taking an hour to divide the check super specifically i make sure to not have dinner with them in the future. it's embarassing and a waste of time. |
"Hey Dave, you ordered yours with extra cheese, which is a dollar extra. Can you throw in an extra dollar? And who got the double meatball? Jeez, that's like $8.75! We're short $2.75! And oh wait, Corona's are 4 bucks, not five, gimme my extra dollar back. And go grab Bob; he's on the phone outside and he didn't pitch in yet. Wait! Did someone leave the tip? Who's gonna take care of that?"
Yup, I'll take Korean style any day... |
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hkfun
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I can see the benefits of both systems.
I think it is pretty cool to pay for others. I do that sometimes for my friends, but usually if there's just two of us. I like the friendly feel of sharing with others and not worrying about money. I also enjoy watching people fight over the bill!
That said, it's a bit hard for me when it comes to groups of people. Since I am paying off loans and trying to save money, I'm much more frugal than most of my friends. So if I go to dinner with those who split the bill, I can go with no pressure. I can order something cheap off the menu and not get a drink or whatever. If I knew that I had to pay for everyone at some point, I'd be really reluctant to go out with them, since it wouldn't be in the budget. And sure, if they know my situation they might be understanding, but I would still feel bad if they paid all the time.
So maybe I'll like the Asian system more when I have more moolah. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Another observation I have made during my time living here is that our Koreans friends are far more likely to pick up the bill at dinner, a night out etc. I almost feel embarrassed when we go out with my international friends and they take 10 minutes to divide up tabs/bills from the evening out. She usually just tells me to pick it up and next time they can. Next time out the exact same process is repeated. I of course explain to her it's a different 'culture' and remind her that there are plenty of things from her culture that I don't understand. I think this is one of the reasons (along with a lot is ESL teaching worried about paying off student loans back home) that leads to the generalization from many Koreans that foreigners are cheap and unwilling to share even amongst friends. |
With my friends it is sort of like an honor system. I'll get it this time, you next time. It's like an unspoken understanding.
That never flew with some of my western colleagues I grew close with in Korea however.
I think using ESL teachers ( no matter what age ) in Korea ( or even in ESL teachers in general) as an accurate sample of western behavior is a stretch.
Although ESL teachers worldwide have been some of the nicest people I've ever met, they've also been the cheapest/stingiest to the point of embarrassment. |
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peachKitten713
Joined: 13 May 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| hkfun wrote: |
I can see the benefits of both systems.
I think it is pretty cool to pay for others. I do that sometimes for my friends, but usually if there's just two of us. I like the friendly feel of sharing with others and not worrying about money. I also enjoy watching people fight over the bill!
That said, it's a bit hard for me when it comes to groups of people. Since I am paying off loans and trying to save money, I'm much more frugal than most of my friends. So if I go to dinner with those who split the bill, I can go with no pressure. I can order something cheap off the menu and not get a drink or whatever. If I knew that I had to pay for everyone at some point, I'd be really reluctant to go out with them, since it wouldn't be in the budget. And sure, if they know my situation they might be understanding, but I would still feel bad if they paid all the time.
So maybe I'll like the Asian system more when I have more moolah. |
I kinda agree with this. It is a good feeling to pay and also be paid for, but I like to be comfortable with it.
If I go out with a guy who's been hitting on me all night, I might be more comfortable paying some of it, because I want to maintain some aspect of control/independence.
If I'm with a friend or just in a really good mood, I also like paying sometimes. It feels good.
On the other hand, being paid for is nice, too. As a young woman, I enjoy the 'oppa' mentality many Korean guys have and that is nice.
Also, even though I really like helping out and paying sometimes, as a relatively poor person, that isn't something I should really be doing all the time. So I don't mind at all splitting the bill, although sometimes I think it is easier for one person to just pay it (like with their card), and the other people give them cash. That makes it a bit easier on the servers, and makes it possible to covertly pay for your friend/someone you know is short on cash without paying for everyone else or calling that person out out.
My seemingly somewhat disjointed 2 cents on this. ^^ |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| Stingy people freak me out. I don't know if they can ever really enjoy themselves. They save themselves a bit of extra money, and there is nothing wrong with being careful, but I'm not referring to that. It's the ones who make a fuss about a dollar, a single dollar, every time, and it could just be once a week or whatever. They don't care how stingy they look because that dollar is more important. That is just very strange to me and no fun to be around. It is actually kind of a disappointment when someone you otherwise like turns out to be into counting every coin, keeping track of exactly the right amount. How can you enjoy yourself like that? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting topic but it is kind of all over the place.
Loaning money and paying for others at meals are different things. I do agree that with Koreans, once you are part of their inner circle, they will be generous to a fault. However, this is expected from you as well but may never be mentioned if you fail to live up to it.
For example, paying for dinner for a group is part of a normal social process where the person pays one time but the next time the group meets, someone else would offer to pick up the tab.
However, when we visit Korea (since we left) or when we visited friends or family in another Korean city (when living in Busan) it was damn near impossible to pay for meals or anything else as our friends would always pay. the only way I managed to pay at restaurants was for me to sneak away during the meal and pay the bill before our friends managed too. 
In a work setting, at the University when we went out with colleagues someone different picked up the bill each time. It just worked out that way.
At work here in Canada if we go out with colleagues for lunch everyone picks up their own tab, no debate or questions asked.
Different ways for different places!
I will agree with joe on one thing: cheap people freak me out too. By cheap I mean people who have the means to pay but manage to wiggle out because they are cheap.
If someone wishes to live frugally, that is their right and their choice. However that choice and right should end in a group setting when it comes to sharing costs or footing the bill every now and then.
We all know such people... |
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Zulethe
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| thebearofbundang wrote: |
This is just from our experience of course. I've been here for quite a while and have met lots of generous people from all over the world. It just seems like it is more common for the South Koreans I have gotten to know while living here to be more generous with their money than my friends from back home or foreigners who we've met here.
Also, I totally agree with the 'inner circle' thing. My first couple years here I don't think I would have had the view point that South Koreans were overly generous. Since expanding the number of Korean friends I hang out with and having a whole bunch of in-laws living near by, my opinion has changed completely. I feel like my Canadian family and friends say the PC thing much more often and appear to be friendlier because of it, but I think if I was in a tough situation and needed assistance my Korean friends/family would be more willing to go out of their way to help (not only financially). |
I also noticed this, there are some great Korean people out there.
Another point, Koreans can be more generous with their kids specially when their children are adults. I was really happy when I was making 5.50 an hour and going to university in the states and my father wanted to charge me rent. |
LOL off topic but this brought back some long forgotten memories. When I was in 6th grade, my friend had to put a portion of the proceeds from his paper-route into a collection jar every month for rent money. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Are Koreans usually this generous with lending money??? |
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| itiswhatitis wrote: |
In January I needed some minor dental surgery and didn't have the money.
It was in a lot of pain and wanted to get the surgery done with but did not have the money and my credit card was maxed out.
I asked my former Korean co-teacher (public school) to borrow money because I was in a great deal of pain and I was desperate.
For the record, I am 30 (and a man), she is 48 and married and we get together 1-2 times a year. To be painfully honest, I mostly get together with her to grease her and to make sure that she is still happy with me and will continue to give me a good work reference.
The amount was 450 000 won and I paid her back the next month as promised. She didn't hesitate at all to lend me the money.
Something I notice is that it is much more socially acceptable to ask to borrow money in Korea than it is in say America or Canada.
Is she just really nice or is this typical Korean behavior?
Thanks!!! |
Loaning money to a co-worker is not typical behavior, but it was for a medical emergency so she made an exception.
With that said...You really need to reconsider how you budget your money. |
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