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2013 seminar for foreign language institute instructors
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RangerMcGreggor wrote:
TDC troll wrote:


I'm sure some people will refuse to go , this will probably create animosity and mistrust in their workplace .


If you're boss is going to hold animosity for you refusing to attend a misleading meeting, then you should refuse to go to prove that you won't take such BS.


Agree!

If you have to go to these meetings to build up brownie points with the boss, then you might as well forfeit over your pension, medical insurance, vacation days, and put in some free overtime and weekends so that you will be in favor of getting the renewed contract next year making 100,000 more per month.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is someone charging 10,000 won for this event?






Hopefully they're not trying to claim that this gathering is some kind of "teacher's association" meeting.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
No. It is NOT official enough.

The agency in question does NOT have the authority to command anyone to this "workshop".
They are NOT a judicial body.
They are NOT a government agency.
They do NOT have the authority of law to do so.

They cannot terminate your employment, affect your status of sojourn or levy a legally authorized fine for not attending.

You do NOT have to go on your own free time.
You cannot be compelled to attend at your own expense or on your own time.

There are NO LEGAL consequences for not attending.

You cannot be fined or deported for failure to attend.
Your registration at the MOE will NOT be affected.

It is NOT endorsed by the Gyeonggi Provincial Office of Education, by the Ministry of Education, by Immigration or the Ministry of Justice (and they are the ONLY bodes who do have the authority of law in this matter).

Go if you want but you do so of your own volition and expense.

.


Good job on keeping up with this thread. There's a great deal of misinformation out there in hagwonland over these meetings. Complete wastes of time and all about control.
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M-Tea



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Hmm? Reply with quote

I have been getting conflicting information from here and other sources. Just for your reference, I don't want to go.

Here is what I have been told so far:

http://www.law.go.kr/lsInfoP.do?lsiSeq=137362&efYd=20130323#0000


Quote:
제13조(강사 등) ① 학원에서 교습을 담당하는 강사는 대통령령으로 정하는 자격을 갖춘 자이어야 한다.

② 학원설립·운영자는 강사의 연령·학력·전공과목 및 경력 등에 관한 인적 사항을 교육부령으로 정하는 바에 따라 게시하여야 한다. <개정 2008.2.29, 2013.3.23>

③ 교육감은 학원설립·운영자 및 강사가 갖추어야 할 사회교육 담당자로서의 자질을 향상시키기 위하여 필요하면 대통령령으로 정하는 바에 따라 이들의 연수에 관한 계획을 수립·시행할 수 있다. 이 경우 외국인강사(대한민국 국민이 아닌 사람으로서 제1항에 따라 학원에서 교습을 담당하는 강사. 이하 같다)에 대하여는 한국 문화 적응을 지원하고 사회교육 담당자로서의 자질을 향상시키기 위하여 입국 후 1회 이상 연수를 실시하여야 한다. <개정 2011.7.25>

[전문개정 2007.12.21]


My Korean isn't good enough, but my friend says that the translation posted earlier here is incomplete.

The Korean article apparently states that attendance is mandatory at least once after arriving in Korea.

I do have a point here. I am going to ask again. Has anyone called recently to these offices in Korean asking if this meeting is mandatory? If so, can I have the phone number of someone from the office who can corroborate that? That's what I really need.
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nicwr2002



Joined: 17 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: Hmm? Reply with quote

M-Tea wrote:
I have been getting conflicting information from here and other sources. Just for your reference, I don't want to go.

Here is what I have been told so far:

http://www.law.go.kr/lsInfoP.do?lsiSeq=137362&efYd=20130323#0000


Quote:
제13조(강사 등) ① 학원에서 교습을 담당하는 강사는 대통령령으로 정하는 자격을 갖춘 자이어야 한다.

② 학원설립·운영자는 강사의 연령·학력·전공과목 및 경력 등에 관한 인적 사항을 교육부령으로 정하는 바에 따라 게시하여야 한다. <개정 2008.2.29, 2013.3.23>

③ 교육감은 학원설립·운영자 및 강사가 갖추어야 할 사회교육 담당자로서의 자질을 향상시키기 위하여 필요하면 대통령령으로 정하는 바에 따라 이들의 연수에 관한 계획을 수립·시행할 수 있다. 이 경우 외국인강사(대한민국 국민이 아닌 사람으로서 제1항에 따라 학원에서 교습을 담당하는 강사. 이하 같다)에 대하여는 한국 문화 적응을 지원하고 사회교육 담당자로서의 자질을 향상시키기 위하여 입국 후 1회 이상 연수를 실시하여야 한다. <개정 2011.7.25>

[전문개정 2007.12.21]


My Korean isn't good enough, but my friend says that the translation posted earlier here is incomplete.

The Korean article apparently states that attendance is mandatory at least once after arriving in Korea.

I do have a point here. I am going to ask again. Has anyone called recently to these offices in Korean asking if this meeting is mandatory? If so, can I have the phone number of someone from the office who can corroborate that? That's what I really need.


Quote:

It is NOT required by GPOE (or so says the policy division (2nd floor) of the GPOE in Jowondong, Suwon) or the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education.
It is NOT required by the national MOE.

There is NO government body who required it.
You CANNOT by law be forced to go.
Immigration will NOT suspend your ARC, visa or note anything in your file.
The MOE doesn't know anything about it.
The Gyeonggi office of education (GPOE) knew nothing about it.

According to the "letter" it is only a requirement for E2 holders who are "new" in Gyeonggi-do.


I'm pretty sure ttompatz has called about this based off of reading his post here.
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M-Tea



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: Hmm? Reply with quote

nicwr2002 wrote:

I'm pretty sure ttompatz has called about this based off of reading his post here.


Yes, it seems so. I, however, have been getting information that conflicts with that information. Which is why I am asking for a phone number that can be called to corroborate the information.
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Gnawbert



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Hmm? Reply with quote

M-Tea wrote:
nicwr2002 wrote:

I'm pretty sure ttompatz has called about this based off of reading his post here.


Yes, it seems so. I, however, have been getting information that conflicts with that information. Which is why I am asking for a phone number that can be called to corroborate the information.


I've been getting a lot of conflicting information since I came to this little peninsula over five years ago. Sometimes foreigners can have a credit card, sometimes it's against the law. Sometimes foreigners can set up a smart phone plan, sometimes "is not possible."

There's always degrees of truthiness depending on who you ask, most often spoken with an air of authority. Opinion, stated as absolute fact. According to one of my shadier bosses, it's "illegal to quit your job" and they will find you if you run. Of course it wasn't, but it sure put the fear in a few newer teachers thinking of quitting.

My gut feeling is that if you call the number and get someone from the Hagwon Owner's Association, he/she will insist "it is mandatory" because even if it isn't LEGALLY mandatory, they have no reason to say so. Remember: the Hagwon Association exists to give power to the Hagwon owners, and if half the owners I've worked with are any indication, there's nothing they crave more than more power.

I tend to follow Carl Weathers Rule when dealing with most things in Korea: it's always better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
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axelf



Joined: 18 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Hmm? Reply with quote

M-Tea wrote:
nicwr2002 wrote:

I'm pretty sure ttompatz has called about this based off of reading his post here.


Yes, it seems so. I, however, have been getting information that conflicts with that information. Which is why I am asking for a phone number that can be called to corroborate the information.

I'm sure you could find a phone number yourself... Back in 2009, you wrote:
Quote:
Bypassing recruiters for public schools is as easy as finding the board of education office that deals with the area that you want to work in and going there.

So tell us, what is this conflicting information you've got, and where did you get it? Only TDC Troll has tried to supply anything specific, and it's been shot down.

Ttompatz and Wooden Nickels say they've been in direct contact with the GPOE, and Ttompatz (probably the most respected and active poster on Dave's regarding legal matters) says he's also been in contact with other relevant government offices. On top of that, myself and others have directly spotted red flags that suggest this meeting is a scam.

If anyone wants, here's the GPOE (경기도교육청) website: http://www.goe.go.kr/
Here's the number at the bottom of that page: 031-249-0114
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M-Tea



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meant no disrespect to anyone, especially Ttompatz, who I have respected for many years now. Just was having trouble finding someone to call and get a direct number(to something more specific than the normal office number) I could use to give to my boss.

One of my friends had some spare time today and called (031-249-0114) for me to confirm. They basically told him that workers at their office do not work on weekends and that they had never heard of a meeting on this Saturday. That works for me.

Just to reference before, the boss called(a number that claimed to be the head of the gyeonggi office of education, but was completely non-searchable in name and number on the internet and wasn't the head of the office as listed on the office website) a few days ago and they told him that his academy would be fined XX points on their magical point scale if I did not attend. Meaning, he probably got routed to the hagwon association somehow, just needed confirmation.

Also, additional information, the local education office has been told by someone(??) that they may(??) receive a list of names of people who do not attend the meeting. In addition, they haven't received any orders from the higher office(gyeonggi provincal office of education) in regards to any of it.

This leads me to believe that the local hagwon associations are petitioning the local offices of education to accept lists. I guess this goes with that Gnawbert was saying about my conflicting information. I have gotten completely different information from the same local government office during different phone calls as well as getting different information from different offices. I have found, however, that the main offices are far less corrupted, as evidenced again by this case.
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axelf



Joined: 18 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmm? Reply with quote

Sorry M-Tea, but I'm having trouble believing anything you write. On Monday night, about 37 hours before your latest post, you wrote:
Quote:
I am asking for a phone number that can be called to corroborate the information.

A few hours before that, you ignored Ttompatz and Wooden Nickels and wrote:
Quote:
Has anyone called recently to these offices in Korean asking if this meeting is mandatory? If so, can I have the phone number of someone from the office who can corroborate that? That's what I really need.

But this morning you wrote:
Quote:
I have gotten completely different information from the same local government office during different phone calls as well as getting different information from different offices.

Wow, you're so much more self-reliant and (presumably) skilled at Korean than you were 37 hours ago (but not in 2009). And suddenly you're investigating this so hard, so much harder than anybody else.

Every post you've written in this thread seems on the surface to suggest you're "on the teachers' side," yet subtly adds doubt and fear that this meeting might be "real."

Here I go again being "paranoid," but I don't believe a damn thing you write.
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M-Tea



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Bad News Reply with quote

Well, Axelf may be right, but my friend called again and used the Korean name for the meeting. (This was prompted by my boss calling them again.)

This time with the proper information in hand the answer was I must go or I can not work. Also, your academy will be punished accordingly. This was from the 031-249-0114 number from before. Sorry.

I have the specific number if you want to check. This is for the head of the department in the office of education who is running this meeting. 031-820-0542. This connects you to his office, you have to ask for him. 엄홍식.

I really DID want to sleep in.
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: Bad News Reply with quote

M-Tea wrote:
Well, Axelf may be right, but my friend called again and used the Korean name for the meeting. (This was prompted by my boss calling them again.)

This time with the proper information in hand the answer was I must go or I can not work. Also, your academy will be punished accordingly. This was from the 031-249-0114 number from before. Sorry.

I have the specific number if you want to check. This is for the head of the department in the office of education who is running this meeting. 031-820-0542. This connects you to his office, you have to ask for him. 엄홍식.

I really DID want to sleep in.


Something is definitely not accurate here. Did your boss say that the officer said this? Perhaps your boss told the person to say this. Also, occasionally you do get officials who don't know what they are talking about or will say anything to pass the buck so they don't have to deal with a situation.
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Nester Noodlemon



Joined: 16 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Bad News Reply with quote

M-Tea wrote:
Well, Axelf may be right, but my friend called again and used the Korean name for the meeting. (This was prompted by my boss calling them again.)

This time with the proper information in hand the answer was I must go or I can not work. Also, your academy will be punished accordingly. This was from the 031-249-0114 number from before. Sorry.

I have the specific number if you want to check. This is for the head of the department in the office of education who is running this meeting. 031-820-0542. This connects you to his office, you have to ask for him. 엄홍식.

I really DID want to sleep in.


I recommend that you go, please go. In the meantime, 99.3% of the rest of the NET population will be sleeping in, will not be fined, and will not be fired.
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tob55



Joined: 29 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Bad News Reply with quote

wooden nickels wrote:
M-Tea wrote:
Well, Axelf may be right, but my friend called again and used the Korean name for the meeting. (This was prompted by my boss calling them again.)

This time with the proper information in hand the answer was I must go or I can not work. Also, your academy will be punished accordingly. This was from the 031-249-0114 number from before. Sorry.

I have the specific number if you want to check. This is for the head of the department in the office of education who is running this meeting. 031-820-0542. This connects you to his office, you have to ask for him. 엄홍식.

I really DID want to sleep in.


Something is definitely not accurate here. Did your boss say that the officer said this? Perhaps your boss told the person to say this. Also, occasionally you do get officials who don't know what they are talking about or will say anything to pass the buck so they don't have to deal with a situation.


Right, sounds rather fishy to me as well. Honestly it doesn't affect me since I am not in the work situation, but what does bother me is that non-governmental agencies are posing as OFFICIAL representatives of the GPOE, which they are not. The GPOE do not manage the hagwons or hagwon associations and as such are seldom interested in the meetings or attendees who are present. The primary job of the GPOE is to regulate and administer the rules and regulations which affect the hagwons and hagwon associations within their regions. I find it highly suspicious that the GPOE would decide to "micro-manage" the hagwons and hagwon associations for any reason. Someone is trying to feed the largest pile of BS I have heard of in a while to the foreign workers. Why is it that NONE of the Korean co-workers in the same hagwons are not reguired to go. They would be in the same category as foreign hagwon workers, yet they are not required to go, only the foreign workers (at least I don't recall seeing anything that mentioned the Korean co-workers being required to go, correct me if I am mistaken please).

This has been an interesting discussion, and I will probably make this my ast comment on this particular thread, since it is nothing that affects my work situation. I have only commented to provide some comments about some of the things I noticed that didn't seem right about the whole situation.
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ytide



Joined: 26 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't understand one thing:

What does the Gyeonggi Hagwon Association (한국 학원 총 연합회 경기도 지회) have to gain from creating a fake meeting for foreign teachers? Is it only for that 10,000 Won fee?
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