Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2013 seminar for foreign language institute instructors
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ytide



Joined: 26 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: 2013 seminar for foreign language institute instructors Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
All legally registered E2 teachers are required to attend.


I work for people who control a small network of "campuses". They are sending only one E-2 teacher per "campus", so in their understanding at least, it is assuredly NOT "all E-2s".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
axelf



Joined: 18 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ytide wrote:
I still don't understand one thing:

What does the Gyeonggi Hagwon Association (한국 학원 총 연합회 경기도 지회) have to gain from creating a fake meeting for foreign teachers? Is it only for that 10,000 Won fee?

Ha ha, you're really not paranoid enough. Here's one guess: In this first meeting, the hagwon association's main goal is to establish its "authority" over the teachers. It's a psychological move and a test. Perhaps this first meeting will even be a nice "feel good" event. But make no mistake, the main thing they want is for the teachers to believe them and to believe in their "authority." There might be some misleading legal information, but nothing oppressive or shocking will occur. Yet.

If they successfully establish their "authority," they can start making "government policies" in the future that benefit the owners and screw the teachers, either directly or indirectly.

Got it? Maybe there are other agendas. Whatever the case, please stay home on Saturday and help make this sleazy event a dismal failure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ytide



Joined: 26 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

axelf wrote:
they want...the teachers to believe them and to believe in their "authority." There might be some misleading legal information

This is plausible.

ytide wrote:
I still don't understand one thing:

What does the Gyeonggi Hagwon Association (한국 학원 총 연합회 경기도 지회) have to gain from creating a fake meeting for foreign teachers? Is it only for that 10,000 Won fee?

Other possible replies from upthread:

(1) "I have a feeling the hagwon owners are sort of testing their workers with this scam" --axelf

(2) " Any legal information you hear at the meeting will likely be distorted and false. I'm sure many hagwon owners (you know, the people who are the members of the hagwon association) would like their teachers to think that the owners have the teachers by the balls. That way the owners can get away with more crap." --axelf

(3) "hey would love to have 4000 teachers show up and pay 10.000 won each to attend their event." --wooden nickels [total: 40million cold hard cash]

(4) "I suspect one agenda of the meeting on June 29th is to misrepresent the law in order to make foreign teachers feel less capable of defending themselves against dirty hagwon practices." --axelf

(5) "If the meeting is considered a success by the association, it could be quite the power trip for them and could put into motion some very bad precedents. That's why I've been fuming over this" --axelf

(6) "getting together several hundred foreigners and making them pay 10,000w in a shakedown " --Gnawbert

(7) "all about control." --dairyairy


Last edited by ytide on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:16 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ytide



Joined: 26 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: My Manager's Angry Spiel Reply with quote

Following my experience at my hagwon today. [Short version: My boss yelled at me a lot, threatened to fire me, and told me the training was so to prevent us from sexually assaulting Korean females -- It sounds like I'm making this up, I know... Haha, I am not.].
_______________________________________
I requested overtime pay. I calmly stated my case that it was not in my contract to work on Saturdays, that it was not in my contract to attend any kind of unpaid weekend training (or any perhaps-government-sanctioned training by the private Hagwon Association), and that overtime pay is surely in order (as it will take up my Saturday from 8 AM to 1-2 PM, if including all travel time).

My requests made her extremely angry. I was surprised, but she yelled quite a bit. (I've seen her do it to students before. You know, the one where the boy or boys just stand there quietly, looking at the floor and nodding their heads, saying nothing while being berated.) She threatened to fire me. She repeatedly accused me of being "rude" to her because I brought up the issue and "didn't believe" her word that this was legally required (and my privately pointing out certain pay discrepancies in the past was also "rude", she says). Being "rude" is further grounds for firing, she says. What a job I've got, eh?

This is the information I got from that meeting, the words of my manager (who I do not trust, anyway, on past experience):
(a) Paying overtime for this [unexpected, uncontractual weekend "training" put on by the Hagwon Association] is not required by law, because this training is a "duty" for foreigners
(b) refusing to attend is grounds for firing,
(c) The training was set up by the Gyeonggi Hagwon Association (한국학원총연합회경기도지회), but that group is given authority -- she claims -- by the Education Minister (교육감) to run these trainings.
(d) She produced printouts from the "국가법령정보센터" (Law Information Center?) saying that this Education Minister reserves the right to call for these trainings, which was "Article 13, Subsection 3" and other clauses.
(e) This was interesting: She let in the slip during her hour-long tirade that this "training" centers around "sexual assault" education and prevention ("there has been a problem with foreign teachers sexually abusing Korean girls", I think she said), as well as training us not to use bad words in the classroom, and similar things. This may have been just her speculation, but it didn't seem to be.

Regarding (c) and (d), if the Education Minister did call for this training, why are all the governmental bodies unaware of it? Isn't it suspicious that South Korea's Education Ministry would "outsource" this kind of training to the Hagwon Association, a private group?

Regarding (e), and following on from my post above (compiling a list of possible reasons for this "scam training"), one reason could be that the Hagwons are trying to legally cover their a$$es in case something-like-that happens at the workplace.
_______________________________________
tob55 wrote:
Why is it that NONE of the Korean co-workers in the same hagwons are not reguired to go. They would be in the same category as foreign hagwon workers, yet they are not required to go, only the foreign workers (at least I don't recall seeing anything that mentioned the Korean co-workers being required to go, correct me if I am mistaken please).

My manager (again, very angrily) said that an event like this was also set up by the hagwon association for Korean teachers at some unspecified date in the past.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Porksta



Joined: 05 May 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my friends a few months back had to attend a sexual health conference. All about how to not get STDs or something. Could it have been the same thing as this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Who's Your Daddy?



Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: The joy's in the ride.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, ha this event. I was stupid enough to go when I was FOB in 2003, one of my co-workers didn't. On Monday the boss said "turn in your attendance receipts." He asked the one girl for hers, she just said "I didn't go." Then he was like "oh, okay." And I was like WTF, why did I go!

It's BS this event. Do you really think the Korean government cares? Look at all the laws that aren't enforced here. And all the BS posing authority figures. This is one of those. It's like a meeting of parking lot guards who talk down to the simpleton foreigners. Don't go, you'll only be kicking yourself later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chia Pet



Joined: 23 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some new information about the meeting. I actually WENT to the Gyeonggi Provincial Office of Education today. Tonight I can post a little video to show I was actually there.

The office of education IS involved in the meeting this Saturday. But it took a while to find that out.

When I got there most of the workers were at lunch. After a few minutes a couple of officers came, and I showed them the letters us teachers got about the meeting. The officers found a young man whose English was excellent, and he translated for me. Those officers thought the meeting was not legitimate and that it was illegal.

But then they found another officer who is more closely related to foreign language teaching (or something like that). He spoke good English, and he explained that the meeting actually IS legitimate.

He said the office of education in northern Gyeonggi-do is in charge of the meeting. I visited the top office in Suwon, but there's a secondary office in northern Gyeonggi-do.

The officer gave me a number people can call to talk to an English-speaking officer. The number is: 031-249-0235~40.

* I told him I wanted to post the number(s) on the Internet, and at first he wasn't comfortable about it because they get so many calls about various things. So if you have a bunch of co-workers or friends who want to know about this meeting, please just have one person call.

I hope this helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many people will be fired as a result of not attending....?

Can someone film the 'training' and post clips on you tube?

ESP the parts about 'good touch' and 'bad touch'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: My Manager's Angry Spiel Reply with quote

ytide wrote:

(e) This was interesting: She let in the slip during her hour-long tirade that this "training" centers around "sexual assault" education and prevention ("there has been a problem with foreign teachers sexually abusing Korean girls", I think she said), as well as training us not to use bad words in the classroom, and similar things. This may have been just her speculation, but it didn't seem to be.


Am I the only one who thinks that perhaps this meeting will consist of the infamous MBC video being shown in loop for 4 hours? It could be quite brilliant. I can only hope that someone will go to this meeting and record it on camera for the world to see^^

Here is the MBC video link for those who have yet to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09FXOZVw4g


Last edited by maximmm on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ytide



Joined: 26 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chia Pet wrote:
Those officers thought the meeting was not legitimate and that it was illegal.

But then they found another officer who is more closely related to foreign language teaching (or something like that). He spoke good English, and he explained that the meeting actually IS legitimate.

Did he mention is overtime pay applied?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had 2 -3 Native English Teachers employed at my school for more than 6 years. I have never asked them to attend one of these events and they have never attended one of these events to my knowledge. My wife and I attended one of these events several years back. We vowed, unless it should become a legally enforceable issue to attend, that we would never attend another of the meetings. Not a single person mentioned above has been fired, fined, imprisoned, put in front of the firing squad, forced to walk the plank, or felt the curse of voodoo pins piercing their bodies to my knowledge.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: My Manager's Angry Spiel Reply with quote

ytide wrote:
Following my experience at my hagwon today. [Short version: My boss yelled at me a lot, threatened to fire me, and told me the training was so to prevent us from sexually assaulting Korean females -- It sounds like I'm making this up, I know... Haha, I am not.].


Tell the bint the next time she implies/insinuates/states/etc. that you're a pervert you'll sue her.

Quote:
______________________________________
I requested overtime pay. I calmly stated my case that it was not in my contract to work on Saturdays, that it was not in my contract to attend any kind of unpaid weekend training (or any perhaps-government-sanctioned training by the private Hagwon Association), and that overtime pay is surely in order (as it will take up my Saturday from 8 AM to 1-2 PM, if including all travel time).


Stick to your guns!

Quote:
My requests made her extremely angry. I was surprised, but she yelled quite a bit. (I've seen her do it to students before. You know, the one where the boy or boys just stand there quietly, looking at the floor and nodding their heads, saying nothing while being berated.) She threatened to fire me. She repeatedly accused me of being "rude" to her because I brought up the issue and "didn't believe" her word that this was legally required (and my privately pointing out certain pay discrepancies in the past was also "rude", she says). Being "rude" is further grounds for firing, she says. What a job I've got, eh?


Tell the bint that you're going to the Labor Board, the Tax Office, the National Health Office, and the Pension Office about her lack of manners regarding her legal obligations.

Quote:
This is the information I got from that meeting, the words of my manager (who I do not trust, anyway, on past experience):
(a) Paying overtime for this [unexpected, uncontractual weekend "training" put on by the Hagwon Association] is not required by law, because this training is a "duty" for foreigners


If it's a duty, then there is a statute that applies. If she can't prove there's a statute that applies, then there's no duty.

Quote:
(b) refusing to attend is grounds for firing,


Nope, not at all. On the other hand, firing you for refusing to attend a non-contractual event is grounds for you to go to the Labor Board.

Quote:
(c) The training was set up by the Gyeonggi Hagwon Association (한국학원총연합회경기도지회), but that group is given authority -- she claims -- by the Education Minister (교육감) to run these trainings.


Bull.

Quote:
(d) She produced printouts from the "국가법령정보센터" (Law Information Center?) saying that this Education Minister reserves the right to call for these trainings, which was "Article 13, Subsection 3" and other clauses.


They can say those statutes apply all they want, but unless and until they actually quote the specific provisions of the statute, it's all bull.

Quote:
(e) This was interesting: She let in the slip during her hour-long tirade that this "training" centers around "sexual assault" education and prevention ("there has been a problem with foreign teachers sexually abusing Korean girls", I think she said), as well as training us not to use bad words in the classroom, and similar things. This may have been just her speculation, but it didn't seem to be.


Not her speculation. She's just repeating the well-known myth, aka bull, about us GETs.

By the way, did you happen to ask her when she and all the other Koreans in her school are going to their training to prevent them from diddling the little kids? There are far, far more problems with Korean teachers molesting children in Korea than there arew with foreigners.

Quote:
Regarding (c) and (d), if the Education Minister did call for this training, why are all the governmental bodies unaware of it? Isn't it suspicious that South Korea's Education Ministry would "outsource" this kind of training to the Hagwon Association, a private group?


The governmental bodies are unawareof it because, you guessed it, it's not sanctioned by the governmental bodies. And, of course, they're not outsourcing the training. At best--and I have my doubts on this, too--the Hagweon Association merely rented space from the Office of Education. That doesn't mean the OoE is outsourcing or even requiring the training.

Quote:
Regarding (e), and following on from my post above (compiling a list of possible reasons for this "scam training"), one reason could be that the Hagwons are trying to legally cover their a$$es in case something-like-that happens at the workplace.


The bigots are already fully convinced that foreigners are criminals/pedophiles/scum anyway. If anything, this "training" is to settle down the paying customers, er, the moms.

Quote:
______________________________________
tob55 wrote:
Why is it that NONE of the Korean co-workers in the same hagwons are not reguired to go. They would be in the same category as foreign hagwon workers, yet they are not required to go, only the foreign workers (at least I don't recall seeing anything that mentioned the Korean co-workers being required to go, correct me if I am mistaken please).

My manager (again, very angrily) said that an event like this was also set up by the hagwon association for Korean teachers at some unspecified date in the past.


If she can't provide the date, place, and statutory requirement for that training for the Koreans, it didn't happen. It's more bull from her to cower you into doing what she wants.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
axelf



Joined: 18 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chia Pet wrote:
I have some new information about the meeting. I actually WENT to the Gyeonggi Provincial Office of Education today. Tonight I can post a little video to show I was actually there.

The office of education IS involved in the meeting this Saturday. But it took a while to find that out.

When I got there most of the workers were at lunch. After a few minutes a couple of officers came, and I showed them the letters us teachers got about the meeting. The officers found a young man whose English was excellent, and he translated for me. Those officers thought the meeting was not legitimate and that it was illegal.

But then they found another officer who is more closely related to foreign language teaching (or something like that). He spoke good English, and he explained that the meeting actually IS legitimate.

He said the office of education in northern Gyeonggi-do is in charge of the meeting. I visited the top office in Suwon, but there's a secondary office in northern Gyeonggi-do.

The officer gave me a number people can call to talk to an English-speaking officer. The number is: 031-249-0235~40.

* I told him I wanted to post the number(s) on the Internet, and at first he wasn't comfortable about it because they get so many calls about various things. So if you have a bunch of co-workers or friends who want to know about this meeting, please just have one person call.

I hope this helps.

Well, I gotta say, we may finally have something convincing here. I searched Google and the phone numbers listed above look pretty legit. Several of them appear to be go-to numbers for the public to use to communicate with the GPOE. Has anyone tried calling?

If this meeting really is a government event, it's mind-boggling how little care was taken to establish its credibility. But I'm glad I may not have to battle the hagwon association or argue with my boss tomorrow. Thanks for the info.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ytide



Joined: 26 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, CentralCali. What I increasingly see is that I am a "commodity" in this -- they want me there for the hagwon's own benefit, to avoid a penalty imposed by the Hagwon Association. Another campus owned by the same person is sending only one foreign-teacher of seven employed! They just want each campus represented by a "warm body".
____________________________________________
I am off the following workweek, Monday through Friday. Saturday is the first day of my vacation (the first full week off, in fact, that I will have had since starting here over a year and a half ago). They are cutting into my first day of vacation with this training. I'll be out of work at 10 PM Friday, and am slated to have to wake up at 7 AM to go to this "training" for half the day. Still, I'd go, I would (even if were a "Hagwon Association scam") if they'd just pay me for my time, and if they'd treat me with some basic dignity, rather than using these crude/ridiculous threats of firing and so on.

I had a short follow-up meeting with her today. She told me that senior-management (to whom she is distantly related by blood) was refusing to pay me any compensation for my time. I told her I just wanted to be treated fairly, and that I was disappointed in the way the hagwon was treating me (note: this is certainly not the only time they've "cut corners" against us here). She got angry about this, and said she was disappointed "too". She said that if I didn't go, the hagwon would be fined. She insinuated that the government would levy the fine, but she was vague on that, so going on past experience I just assumed it to be another lie. I think the Hagwon Association will impose its own fine, maybe by increasing dues owed by that particular campus next year, or whatever (my speculation). Somebody else upthread said there is a "points" system maintained by the Hagwon Association. I told her that if the hagwon is fined, that's actually not my concern. I am being (defacto) "fined" by eating into my first day of vacation without any compensation at all, and being subject to extortion.

She also repeated again that the "training" is about "sexual assault". I told her flatly that a "sexual assault training" for only foreign teachers is ridiculous and even insulting. She said that it is not ridiculous: "Have you followed the Korean news recently?"


CentralCali wrote:
At best--and I have my doubts on this, too--the Hagweon Association merely rented space from the Office of Education. That doesn't mean the OoE is outsourcing or even requiring the training.

The weird thing is, the Hagwon Association is renting space from "Anyang City Hall" for the event, not from anything connected with any office of education.

The event is scheduled to take place at: "안양시청 대강당" [Anyang City Hall Main Auditorium]. I see this on the original communique in Korean (which my manager let me take home, after our discussion), which is definitely issued by the Hagwon Association, not the Office of Education or any other government group. Article 13, Subsection 3 does seem to say the Minister of Education can organize such an event in conjunction with the Hagwon Association.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ytide wrote:

She also repeated again that the "training" is about "sexual assault". I told her flatly that a "sexual assault training" for only foreign teachers is ridiculous and even insulting. She said that it is not ridiculous: "Have you followed the Korean news recently?"


I'm waiting for our trio champion apologists to rebuke this by saying that they've been following the Korean news and found no evidence of a negative bias against foreigners in the local media^^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 5 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International