|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Fine, you think he is a fraud - I am sure he is going to lose sleep knowing that is what you think of him. As for me - no, I am not sure if he is or not and even if he is - he isn't the biggest culprit by a long chalk. But he is making a better living than either one of us. |
You were the one holding this guy up as a kind of role model. I'm just saying I'm not impressed. I'm sure you're not going to lose any sleep about that either. |
I think the guy we have been discussing is a better role model than some of the posters on this forum who refuse to take postgraduate qualifications to better their lot, refuse to do anything about their situation and getting out of TEFL because they can't make any real money in it but still sign contract after contract committing themselves to Korea. Don't like teaching but haven't got the godknowswhat to go and do something else instead. Refuse to learn the language and wonder why they feel ostracized and their life is limited regarding opportunity. I think he is a bit of a hero compared to a lot of posters on here who want the great job, money and lifestyle but want all that in exchange of their poli-sci BA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe. Depends on how much he believes in what he's doing. If he knows it's a scam, I'd say no. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Maybe. Depends on how much he believes in what he's doing. If he knows it's a scam, I'd say no. |
Reminds me of what Humpty Dumpty had to say about it...
“When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more, nor less.”
― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deja
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
The thing is already emerging powers there speak Portugese. You'll have immediate use of it, and you'll also be able to transition to Spanish.
I'm not suggesting not learning Spanish, but I think Portugese is a better choice at the moment, and one that will transition into Spanish easily. Transition from Spanish to Portugese is also easy, however, currently the Spanish speaking countries are in such a mess there, I cannot really think of much jobs that might exist there.
Chile does have some good chances, however for investors and business managers, where English will be usable.
It'll be quite some time before those countres will be able to offer anything to foreigners with knowledge of the local language.
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Deja wrote: |
| Spanish? It's spoken in the very poor South American countries mostly. |
Which is exactly why it is important to know. Because those countries are going to get richer in the future. Emerging/developing markets are where fortunes can be made. Spanish is very useful. It's a good language to learn and know.
http://akarlin.com/2011/05/01/top-10-most-useful-languages/
| Quote: |
| Spanish speaking countries include: Spain, Colombia, Peru, Venzuela, Ecuador, Guatamala, Cuba, Bolivia, Honduras, Paraguay, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama, Equatorial Guinea, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Domincan Republic, Nicarahua, and Uruguay. Wow, that’s 21 countries. |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The reason I'd say European languages are more beneficial than Asian languages, is because of the racism of Asian countries. It's not like an Asian firm will hire you as often as a European one. I can speak Korean well enough, and have an F Visa, but doubt I could get a job at GS25. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| The reason I'd say European languages are more beneficial than Asian languages, is because of the racism of Asian countries. It's not like an Asian firm will hire you as often as a European one. I can speak Korean well enough, and have an F Visa, but doubt I could get a job at GS25. |
Try getting a job in France as an outsider.
Some EU countries will hire their own nationals ahead of an outsider even if better qualified. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Before you decide to learn any language just ask yourself the question "What then?" What are you going to do after you learn it? If you don't have a clear use or plan then it probably isn't going to be worth it. That answer isn't going to suddenly show up after you can speak the language. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am (or used to be-- not hispanic for the record) basically fluent in Spanish, having taken it at high levels since about the 6th grade; then I tried to look cosmopolitan by switching to French in college and fulfilling the five semesters that were required for my major... and I'd rather be tortured than forced to sit down and learn another language again. I love French culture and one of my references is my fifth semester French Literature teacher... but the difficulty just became exponential as it went on, and I got lazy at times. The Spanish background helped a lot, but even then I could barely understand anything when watching a French movie. Needless to say, my Korean blows, though I often entice women with the language exchange ploy. I can read it and get around and I'm good at pretending like I understand stuff... but I just don't care and, even though I've been handed great jobs, I've been screwed over by Koreans since I got off the plane, so their language can suck it. Hmm. I have no idea which thread I'm posting in. It's not the one with the foreigner who can speak Korean really well, but that guy should be lynched. Yeah, I don't really know what I'm commenting on but I hope it's somewhat relevant.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Why Not To Learn An Asian Language |
|
|
| Quote: |
I once had a hostile encounter with an American college senior about studying an Asian language. I had just gotten my MBA at Harvard Business School and was working at Crocker National Bank’s main headquarters in San Francisco. The conversation went like this.
American majoring in Japanese: Who do I speak to about working for Crocker in Japan?
Me: Do you have an MBA?
him: No. A lot of people say I need one but my professor says I don’t.
Me: Your finance professor?
Him: No. I do not have a finance professor. He’s my Japanese professor. I am about to graduate from college here in San Francisco with a BA in Japanese.
Me: He’s wrong. You need an MBA.
Him: My professor says banks like this one need Japanese speakers so you can do business in Japan.
Me: He’s right about that. But we have them. They are called native Japanese citizens.
Him: But they would not have my knowledge of American English and culture.
Me, now exasperated and fed up with him: Come with me.
I then introduced him to one of my Harvard MBA classmates who was hired to Crocker at the same time as me the previous June.
Me: This is Yoshi. For the last two years, he and I were classmates at Harvard Business School. We both graduated with MBAs. He is a native Japanese and a Japanese citizen. He is married to a Japanese woman and has two Japanese kids. They all speak Japanese like the natives they are. If you want to get a job in international banking here or at any other large bank, you will have to prove that you speak Japanese as well as Yoshi and know Japanese culture as well as he does and that you have equal or better skills that relate to the banking business, like an MBA from a top business school. You cannot just be an American native Japanese-English translator.
I assume the kid went home and cried.
Welcome to the NFL, rookie. And sayonara. |
This is an interesting example that to be able to do a job in another country you should possess both skills in the job and the language abilities to work in that environment. Possessing only one or the other makes you useless.
I don't know many people with fluency in both Korean, a good MBA and a non-gyopo in Korea and I wonder how they fare in the job market. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Quote:
I once had a hostile encounter with an American college senior about studying an Asian language. I had just gotten my MBA at Harvard Business School and was working at Crocker National Bank’s main headquarters in San Francisco. The conversation went like this.
American majoring in Japanese: Who do I speak to about working for Crocker in Japan?
Me: Do you have an MBA?
him: No. A lot of people say I need one but my professor says I don’t.
Me: Your finance professor?
Him: No. I do not have a finance professor. He’s my Japanese professor. I am about to graduate from college here in San Francisco with a BA in Japanese.
Me: He’s wrong. You need an MBA.
Him: My professor says banks like this one need Japanese speakers so you can do business in Japan.
Me: He’s right about that. But we have them. They are called native Japanese citizens.
Him: But they would not have my knowledge of American English and culture.
Me, now exasperated and fed up with him: Come with me.
I then introduced him to one of my Harvard MBA classmates who was hired to Crocker at the same time as me the previous June.
Me: This is Yoshi. For the last two years, he and I were classmates at Harvard Business School. We both graduated with MBAs. He is a native Japanese and a Japanese citizen. He is married to a Japanese woman and has two Japanese kids. They all speak Japanese like the natives they are. If you want to get a job in international banking here or at any other large bank, you will have to prove that you speak Japanese as well as Yoshi and know Japanese culture as well as he does and that you have equal or better skills that relate to the banking business, like an MBA from a top business school. You cannot just be an American native Japanese-English translator.
I assume the kid went home and cried.
Welcome to the NFL, rookie. And sayonara.
This is an interesting example that to be able to do a job in another country you should possess both skills in the job and the language abilities to work in that environment. Possessing only one or the other makes you useless.
I don't know many people with fluency in both Korean, a good MBA and a non-gyopo in Korea and I wonder how they fare in the job market. |
Completely bilingual and MBAs from top business schools, but they still manged to f..k up the world for everyone else.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Why Not To Learn An Asian Language |
|
|
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| Quote: |
I once had a hostile encounter with an American college senior about studying an Asian language. I had just gotten my MBA at Harvard Business School and was working at Crocker National Bank’s main headquarters in San Francisco. The conversation went like this.
American majoring in Japanese: Who do I speak to about working for Crocker in Japan?
Me: Do you have an MBA?
him: No. A lot of people say I need one but my professor says I don’t.
Me: Your finance professor?
Him: No. I do not have a finance professor. He’s my Japanese professor. I am about to graduate from college here in San Francisco with a BA in Japanese.
Me: He’s wrong. You need an MBA.
Him: My professor says banks like this one need Japanese speakers so you can do business in Japan.
Me: He’s right about that. But we have them. They are called native Japanese citizens.
Him: But they would not have my knowledge of American English and culture.
Me, now exasperated and fed up with him: Come with me.
I then introduced him to one of my Harvard MBA classmates who was hired to Crocker at the same time as me the previous June.
Me: This is Yoshi. For the last two years, he and I were classmates at Harvard Business School. We both graduated with MBAs. He is a native Japanese and a Japanese citizen. He is married to a Japanese woman and has two Japanese kids. They all speak Japanese like the natives they are. If you want to get a job in international banking here or at any other large bank, you will have to prove that you speak Japanese as well as Yoshi and know Japanese culture as well as he does and that you have equal or better skills that relate to the banking business, like an MBA from a top business school. You cannot just be an American native Japanese-English translator.
I assume the kid went home and cried.
Welcome to the NFL, rookie. And sayonara. |
This is an interesting example that to be able to do a job in another country you should possess both skills in the job and the language abilities to work in that environment. Possessing only one or the other makes you useless.
I don't know many people with fluency in both Korean, a good MBA and a non-gyopo in Korea and I wonder how they fare in the job market. |
I think it's more likely a Western Company would hire a Westerner (regardless of race) with Asian language skills and a bachelors in some kind of trade or foreign studies than an Asian company. The Asian companies seem to prefer people that come from their country. The reasons for this might be more about visas, passports, and familiarity rather than racism. It's also about foreigners not really getting how things might work in the countries they are hired in.
Here is an example of a foreigner that shot up the ranks in Japan:
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21567046-what-really-happened-japans-premier-camera-maker-paying-price-doing-whats-right
I've met foreigners here that work for Korean companies and they don't seem to be too ambitious about moving up the ranks in that particulaar company. They see it more as a gateway to better jobs in the USA, or for US companies working in Korea. I think (I ASSUME) if you could grasp Korean, Chinese, or Japanese it would really help you getting a job in the West though. Anybody have experience with that? I don't.
I need to add I think Chinese is an exceptionally valuable Asian language right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| Before you decide to learn any language just ask yourself the question "What then?" What are you going to do after you learn it? If you don't have a clear use or plan then it probably isn't going to be worth it. That answer isn't going to suddenly show up after you can speak the language. |
I agree with you to an extent. But there are also people who find value in the act of learning itself.
In my own case, I studied Korean without a real end goal. I had been living in Korea for almost two years and I didn't want to leave, but I felt the need to do something worthwhile with my time. I felt like if I was learning the local language, then I could justify staying in the country and let the good times continue. This worked until I completed all levels of the program I was in. Now came the "what then?" moment hiamnotcool spoke of. Sure enough, I had no clear plan of what to do with what I had learned. But at no time have I considered that it was a waste of time, energy, or money.
Fast forward a couple years and I'm back home going to school and applying for co-op jobs (internships). I was interviewed by a Korean with poor English ability (surprise!). I don't know how many applicants he interviewed, but I can be certain that the fact that we conversed in Korean (about Korea) during the interview set me apart from the other candidates. I got the job and now have my foot in the door of a major company that will almost certainly hire me after graduation.
Who knows, maybe I would have gotten the job anyway, but I'm sure knowing Korean helped. My point is that while you may not have any set goals with what to do with your aquired language skills in the future, you never know what might come up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
