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The #1 song in Korea right now
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
World Traveler wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQ4_rOZewg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Med2XipHJJM

Yup, that's the one. Very much a stylistic ripoff of Japanese Pamyu Pamyu. Oh well, you knew it'd happen sooner rather than later.

I think it's supposed to be a ripoff, they even got into a little trouble with KBS for uttering a Japanese word and had to change it before KBS would broadcast it.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
World Traveler wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQ4_rOZewg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Med2XipHJJM

Yup, that's the one. Very much a stylistic ripoff of Japanese Pamyu Pamyu. Oh well, you knew it'd happen sooner rather than later.

I think it's supposed to be a ripoff, they even got into a little trouble with KBS for uttering a Japanese word and had to change it before KBS would broadcast it.

Of course it's supposed to be a rip-off. They didn't just rip it off accidentally.

So what's worse, an accidental rip-off or an intentional one? Anyway, I know what you meant... but even if it's intentional parody, it's dodgy. Most Koreans will assume it was all a Korean creative endeavor, when in fact it's copying like most of the other K-pop.

Imitation is flattery, but not when you try to claim it as your own invention.
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optik404



Joined: 24 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
World Traveler wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQ4_rOZewg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Med2XipHJJM

Yup, that's the one. Very much a stylistic ripoff of Japanese Pamyu Pamyu. Oh well, you knew it'd happen sooner rather than later.


This group has actually had this image before the jpop pamyu pamyu singer.

Anyways, if they are a rip off of pamyu pamyu, then is pamyu a rip off of lady gaga? And lady gaga is a rip off of Madonna?
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

optik404 wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
World Traveler wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQ4_rOZewg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Med2XipHJJM

Yup, that's the one. Very much a stylistic ripoff of Japanese Pamyu Pamyu. Oh well, you knew it'd happen sooner rather than later.


This group has actually had this image before the jpop pamyu pamyu singer.

Anyways, if they are a rip off of pamyu pamyu, then is pamyu a rip off of lady gaga? And lady gaga is a rip off of Madonna?

Sure, from a very superficial viewpoint, to some degree that could be argued.
However, there is a difference between a "slavish" rip-off and merely being influenced by something. K-pop groups tend to fall in the former category.

Pamyu pamyu on the other hand, is extremely unique for the genre and very much a Japanese creation, with nothing more than a slight nod to lady gaga or anything western. Like her concept or hate it, the end product is much more distinct than almost anything seen in K-pop. In fact she's so unique that she would probably exist without any outside influence. Her producer also has a very distinct style that isn't just a paint by numbers rip-off of western songs.

That's one difference between most Japanese stuff and Korean stuff anyway: Japan tend to take influences and put themselves into it, radically morphing it into something new and unique and sometimes better than the original. Korea... usually just copies a lot more obviously and tries to pawn it off as it's own thing. It's been a general pattern for quite some time.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:


That's one difference between most Japanese stuff and Korean stuff anyway: Japan tend to take influences and put themselves into it, radically morphing it into something new and unique and sometimes better than the original. Korea... usually just copies a lot more obviously and tries to pawn it off as it's own thing. It's been a general pattern for quite some time.


Or is it seeing something successful and saying "let me try that too and be the best at it"? I think that is what happens far more often.
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Jongno2bucheon



Joined: 11 Mar 2014

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
Korea... usually just copies a lot more obviously and tries to pawn it off as it's own thing. It's been a general pattern for quite some time.


I know. It reminds me of the European renaissance copying from Asia and the middle east and passing it off as its own. I,e, calculus, philosophy, food, Guttenburg Press, etc...
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Stain



Joined: 08 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the point is that everybody copies. The Koreans learned that copying does sell and they learned it from other cultures like the US. So, they do it at an extremely high rate with no shame. That's nothing new. They even copied that.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Mix1 wrote:


That's one difference between most Japanese stuff and Korean stuff anyway: Japan tend to take influences and put themselves into it, radically morphing it into something new and unique and sometimes better than the original. Korea... usually just copies a lot more obviously and tries to pawn it off as it's own thing. It's been a general pattern for quite some time.


Or is it seeing something successful and saying "let me try that too and be the best at it"? I think that is what happens far more often.

I doubt the music marketers are thinking that, but who knows? They are some of the best copiers, that's certainly true. But to be the best requires more than just doing knock off / sounds like versions of everything.

Your analogy might work well with the whole B-boy breakdancing trend. Not sure about music though.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jongno2bucheon wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
Korea... usually just copies a lot more obviously and tries to pawn it off as it's own thing. It's been a general pattern for quite some time.


I know. It reminds me of the European renaissance copying from Asia and the middle east and passing it off as its own. I,e, calculus, philosophy, food, Guttenburg Press, etc...

Nice try.

I understand your need to try and make an analogy like that. Your feelings and pride are hurt when K-pop is criticized. It somehow stabs at you. But you can't deny the "genre" consists of obvious copies of western sounds and genres, can you?
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stain wrote:
I think the point is that everybody copies. The Koreans learned that copying does sell and they learned it from other cultures like the US. So, they do it at an extremely high rate with no shame. That's nothing new. They even copied that.

Huge oversimplification. Obviously there is always some degree of borrowing/influencing going on, but some cultures simply copy more than others. That's just the way it is, usually based on who made or did what first. Also some cultures view copying as a much more serious offense than others, as you may note with your "no shame" comment.

Koreans, being relative latecomers in the game, are of course going to copy some things. But let's not assume every country is the same on this. You don't see Turkey churning out "T-pop" and copying every western song and genre 1 to 1, then trying to market it back to us in a P.R. stint, passing it off part off as part of their "culture" ... do you?

And to say Koreans "learned to copy" from other cultures is B.S. and an odd statement that looks like its designed to relieve them of any blame for copying. It's also a bit insulting, like they couldn't have even learned to COPY on their own? They had to learn that from others too? "Hey, guys, this is how you copy stuff... got it? Ok go to it!" .... right.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't like, 95% of European-American music today based off of what some black people in America and Jamaica did?

I don't care if KPop is the same as American music or not. Every country around the world makes pop dance music and throws in some rapping. Who cares if its done in a more American or more indigenous style?

Quote:
I doubt the music marketers are thinking that, but who knows?


Marketing is about making money.

So, how familiar are people with the history of KPop here to actually explain its development?
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Stain



Joined: 08 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
Stain wrote:
I think the point is that everybody copies. The Koreans learned that copying does sell and they learned it from other cultures like the US. So, they do it at an extremely high rate with no shame. That's nothing new. They even copied that.

Huge oversimplification. Obviously there is always some degree of borrowing/influencing going on, but some cultures simply copy more than others. That's just the way it is, usually based on who made or did what first. Also some cultures view copying as a much more serious offense than others, as you may note with your "no shame" comment.

Koreans, being relative latecomers in the game, are of course going to copy some things. But let's not assume every country is the same on this. You don't see Turkey churning out "T-pop" and copying every western song and genre 1 to 1, then trying to market it back to us in a P.R. stint, passing it off part off as part of their "culture" ... do you?

And to say Koreans "learned to copy" from other cultures is B.S. and an odd statement that looks like its designed to relieve them of any blame for copying. It's also a bit insulting, like they couldn't have even learned to COPY on their own? They had to learn that from others too? "Hey, guys, this is how you copy stuff... got it? Ok go to it!" .... right.


Actually, you are right. My statement was a tad tongue in cheek. After reading it again, I failed to make it more clear. I blame myself.
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jongno2bucheon wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
Korea... usually just copies a lot more obviously and tries to pawn it off as it's own thing. It's been a general pattern for quite some time.


I know. It reminds me of the European renaissance copying from Asia and the middle east and passing it off as its own. I,e, calculus, philosophy, food, Guttenburg Press, etc...


More Korean pseudo 'analysis'. What a joke, you don't even know the basics about the Renaissance. The Renaissance came from mostly the influence of the ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, mathematicians, political thinkers etc.

Arabic mathematics preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and others - it was not the origin. The Byzantine Empire which was the Roman Empire in the East and heavily Greek influenced had art, architecture etc that was also a source of influence for the Renaissance.

You are incredibly confused but I am not surprised given your childish posts on here and your Korean ultra nationalism.

The Greeks were about as influenced by Asian cultures such as those of the Persians as much as the Koreans invented the steam engine, flying machines, electricity, the internet and so on. China certainly invented the process of printing through moveable type followed by Japan. Guttenburg developed that to invent the foreunner of modern printing machines.

The magnificent architecture of cathedrals like Notre Dame in Paris pre-dated the magnificent architecture of the Renaissance and it actually was built during the so called 'Dark Ages'. Likewise the magnificent cathedrals and abbeys of England pre-date the Renaissance just like many all over Europe.

Its construction is still wondered over by architects, especially the stained glass windows. China's, Japan's and Korea's wooden buildings aren't a patch on European architecture and construction, ancient, middle age era or modern. Nor have the East Asian countries produced anything like India's Taj Mahal, or Angkor Watt etc.

As for Asian philosophy supposedly influencing the European movements away from autocracies and despots - what a moron to say that. They were based on solid knowledge of the Greek and Roman classics and developed ideas about human rights that the conservative Asian philosophers never did. Oh yeah, the Ionians who lived on islands around ancient Greece were responsible for much of the mathematical and scientific theories' beginnings.

China stopped developing and isolated itself for centuries just like Korea did and to a lesser extent Japan. Korea woke up to find itself backwards, poor and desperately seeking protection from a weak China and then tried to run to Russia through King Gojong who had been as out of touch with the real world as you apparently are today.

We are well aware that Koreans always have and always will be stung by the historical fact that they invented nothing - and no, they did not invent underfloor heating much as I like the ondol. The Etruscans from what is now modern Tuscany in Italy and others did that before Koreans.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So anyone wish to offer up their detailed history of KPop and the scene and how it came about? I mean you guys all claim to be such experts and how its copied and why they do that style of music and all...
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: In my goshiwon cubicle. Seeking moksha.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
So anyone wish to offer up their detailed history of KPop and the scene and how it came about? I mean you guys all claim to be such experts and how its copied and why they do that style of music and all...


Why would you ask narcisists to do things they are incapable of? Change will only come to them if their 'source' is turned off. You (I'm afraid) are not a 'source' for them, nor (I'd imagine) you'd want to be one. Cool
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