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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| I see it's time for another round of, "Someone expressed an idea which I found distasteful, he must be punished." |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: |
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I certainly don't want to seem like I am defending the guy - he seems like a real jerk - but I have to say I am feeling a little uncomfortable about how his comments came to light in the first place. I mean, who among us has not uttered some jerk comments in private that would have made us look bad if they were made public.
I guess it's not only Big Brother we have to worry about watching us, but Little Brother and Little Sister too. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
I certainly don't want to seem like I am defending the guy - he seems like a real jerk - but I have to say I am feeling a little uncomfortable about how his comments came to light in the first place. I mean, who among us has not uttered some jerk comments in private that would have made us look bad if they were made public.
I guess it's not only Big Brother we have to worry about watching us, but Little Brother and Little Sister too. |
I feel like this a bit as well. I think that the context would be completely different than if this was a public statement. Now that it is out, I think it is appropriate for him to have a hard time with his actual black employees or whatnot, but as someone who doesn't even watch the NBA, I feel no need to care. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Well, one thing in his defense is that it is pretty clear his girl is trying to rile him up and getting him to say some crap that will sound bad so she can spin it to her advantage. He did have a lawsuit pending against her and this was obviously a scheme of hers. As a man, I think all of us can sympathize with "sneaky deranged ex" syndrome and that leading us to say some stuff we may regret. I say that's his only defense- If he can show his players that she was trying to mess with him mentally by doing that stuff and play up some sexual power games using men of color to purposefully irritate him and he comes across real about it, his players might actually get it. They're rich and famous too. They know those games. However, I don't think an 81 year old billionaire is that street smart or thinking along those lines.
Still, when you are an NBA owner saying your gf shouldn't be photographed with black men like Magic Johnson, and saying she shouldn't bring black men to an NBA game, its a bit worse than something out of context or just a random offensive statement. I mean, we aren't talking some random "thug" at the club, we're talking about fellow pro-sports owner and NBA top-10 player of all-time Magic Johnson. Even worse is that his gf is a minority herself.
I don't think Imus should have been taken to task the way he was or Rosie O'Donnell and her "ching chong ching chong" or similar not racist, but in bad taste incidents where the PC police come out. But this was just a slap in the face to his employees and everything the league stands for. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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He didn't have a pending lawsuit against her, his wife did.
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| But this was just a slap in the face to his employees and everything the league stands for. |
Yep.
The timing is puzzling too. The recording happened months ago, and now it is coming out? Hmm...
Another disgusting bit of news to come out of this is the fact he was going to get an award from the NAACP. Given his past, even before this came out in the news, that's disgraceful. Apparently money truly does buy love... |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| In the meantime, Magic's group has offered to buy the Clippers. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| In the meantime, Magic's group has offered to buy the Clippers. |
It just so happens that Magic was the principle in the photo Tokowitz was upset about and apparently close personal friends with Stiviano/Vanessa Maria Perez/Monica Gallegos/Maria Monica Perez Gallegos/Maria Valdez (or whatever she's calling herself this afternoon). |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, the usual crowd appears to defend this poor, persecuted, NBA franchise owner.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/04/28/why-the-world-finally-noticed-donald-sterlings-appalling-history/
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The Donald Sterling who is dominating headlines and drawing widespread condemnation for allegedly saying a metric ton of racist things is the same Donald Sterling who has a long, long, long history of being accused of saying or doing offensive things. So why is this time — and why are these particular remarks — different? Why has the world suddenly discovered Donald Sterling?
It’s useful to step back for a moment and remember that this is not a sudden, heretofore unknown side of Sterling being unearthed. Rather, this is just the first time Sterling’s behavior has been the subject of quite so much scrutiny, shining for the first time the brightest possible light on his extensive and unbelievable history.
Consider that Bomani Jones wrote a story headlined “Sterling’s racism should be news” in 2006. Again: 2006. Eight years and 351 losses by the Clippers ago. Jones wrote this after Sterling was sued for housing discrimination. In the lawsuit, Sterling was accused of refusing to rent apartments to black people. (This followed a different lawsuit filed in 2003 alleging that Sterling tried to drive out black and Hispanic tenants, a suit that was settled with an undisclosed financial settlement that was believed to be quite sizable.) As Jones pointed out, the story didn’t really draw much attention at the time.
Sterling was ordered in 2009 to pay a $2.725 million settlement, the largest ever obtained by the Justice Department for such a housing discrimination case. (Sterling and his wife denied any wrongdoing.)
That same year, former Clippers executive and NBA Hall of Fame member Elgin Baylor filed a lawsuit alleging decades of racist behavior by Sterling. Among other things, the suit claimed that Sterling said things like “I’m offering a lot of money for a poor black kid,” and said he wanted the team to be made up of “poor black boys from the South” with a white coach. (The racial claims were dropped before the trial; a jury rejected the lawsuit in 2011.)
The other stories are plentiful. Here’s Sterling allegedly using a racial slur when talking with a head coaching candidate during the early 1980s. Here’s Sterling testifying about paying a woman for sex. Here’s someone who worked at a building Sterling owned saying in sworn testimony that he heard Sterling say the following: “I don’t like Mexican men because they smoke, drink and just hang around the house.” (Peater Keating’s story for ESPN The Magazine in 2009 outlined a lengthy array of things Sterling was accused of saying; in the story, Keating noted that Sterling’s behavior was largely not being covered by the media.) |
Frak him. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not defending him, I'm attacking the people feigning offense for the sake of appearing to be on the "right side" of this issue. The way not being politically correct in one's private speech is being framed as a crime against humanity here is loathsome, regardless of how unsympathetic he is as an individual. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Fox wrote:
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| The way not being politically correct in one's private speech is being framed as a crime against humanity here is loathsome, regardless of how unsympathetic he is as an individual. |
I understand your point, but I also think that most people, even the ones who claim to make a resolute distinction between public and private utterances, would still come across cases that stretch the principle beyond the breaking point.
Suppose an executive at Disney animation, a company that markets itself heavily at children, were caught on tape playing devil's advocate in defense of NAMBLA. Would anyone seriously be saying "Oh, come on, that's just his private opinion, it's got nothing to do with his job"? I think most people would fully understand any decision of the Disney company to can the guy, even if it were the case that someone baited him into making the statements as part of some personal agenda.
I dunno. Maybe some people WOULD defend the Disney exec's right to have his job performance judged separately from his private utterances in defense of chicken-hawks, and if so, I commend their consistency. I'm guessing that for the overwhelming majority of people, though, including those who are defending Sterling, the right of Dinsey to give him the boot would not be a controversial proposition. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| The way not being politically correct in one's private speech is being framed as a crime against humanity here is loathsome, regardless of how unsympathetic he is as an individual. |
I understand your point, but I also think that most people, even the ones who claim to make a resolute distinction between public and private utterances, would still come across cases that push the distinction beyond the breaking point.
Suppose an executive at Disney animation, a company that markets itself heavily at children, were caught on tape playing devil's advocate in defense of NAMBLA. Would anyone seriously be saying "Oh, come on, that's just his private opinion, it's got nothing to do with his job"? |
Unless some pedophilic love scenes start popping up in Disney movies due to whatever influence he might have, what exactly would it have to do with his job? If there's some indication that he's raping kids or the like of course there's a problem (albeit one independent of his job given child rape is an issue regardless of the rapist's employment status), but if he's just talking, in a private capacity? I don't care. Hell, didn't Bacasper used to talk up NAMBLA here or something? If I could take his eccentric ideas regarding sexuality in stride, why should I freak out about a Disney executive. If this fellow's breaking housing laws (as he evidently was), fine, take him to court. But if he's just saying harsh things in an argument with his "girlfriend," whatever.
Besides, it's not like Disney makes good movies any longer anyway. I think the Lion King was the last good one, now it's all trash. Robin Hood is still the best. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Privacy is dead. Is Sterling an idiot. Sure, but can nothing be said anymore without the fear of it being recorded? Same thing happened to Mel Gibson. Is he an idiot? Sure, but he was having a private phone conversation and his girlfriend recorded it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I understand that policing speech becomes obnoxious. But what this guy said matters, because he owns a basketball team, because he owns housing development(s).
When down-and-out Billy Bob launches into a racist rant, nothing needs to be done. Sterling has how much power, on the other hand. He already has the costliest housing discrimination judgment against him. Nobody should feel bad for him. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| I understand that policing speech becomes obnoxious. But what this guy said matters, because he owns a basketball team, because he owns housing development(s). |
I'd say those two should be firmly divided. Owning housing is something of some importance; we all need housing, and minorities in particular tend to be reliant upon cheap rental housing. As I said, I've no issue with his actions as a rental-housing owner being scrutinized or seeing their day in court. I'd even concede that purely within the context of such a trial his comments could possibly be of importance (though I don't know if it would be admissible). But important "because he owns a basketball team?" Basketball is fundamentally unimportant. Our children idolizing people playing a trivial game which achieves nothing and improves no one is problematic in itself, and treating a team owner's words as disproportionately weighty on account of his involvement in such an enterprise reinforces that problem. In fact, that's part of my issue with all of this: the way my fellow citizen is fixated on this game as if it's something which actually matters.
I guess if someone needs to be a sacrifice on the altar of political correctness it's better that it's some unsympathetic man who can bear the damage, but witch hunts tend to be exacerbated by success. This trend of people being torn down in front of an entire nation for saying slightly harsh things is not a good one. |
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