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America's Wage Crisis
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creeper1



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: America's Wage Crisis Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_3zmBUCVcI

I highly recommend the above video.

Some important points to take note of

- highly educated grads are taking useless jobs e.g bar tenders and working for tips.

- minimum wage is ridiculously low for service workers like $2.13 an hour

- a wall street hot shot is now reduced to working in a bar ACTUALLY I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM SINCE I HATE SPECULATORS AND BANKERS.

- people are struggling and going through living hell and absolute poverty.

To relate this back to Korea

Korea offers unparalleled quality of life for otherwise unemployable grads.

There won't be any increase in salaries (2.1 million on average) for a long, long time to come.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartenders can make $50 an hour (tax free) in tips. I know people making that. However, it is harder for a male to get in than a female, but it is possible. Sadly looks matter a lot though, and if you aren't good looking (or aren't good friends with the bar owner or the bar owner yourself) you might be S.O.L. That sucks and that's the way the world works, but to say bartending or waiting tables is low paying is just plain wrong. (I am speaking about the United States here, the wealthiest country to have ever existed. Yes, I realize things are different in Canada, England, and Australia regarding how much bartenders can make there.)
_________________________________________
Edit:

OK, I am watching the video now. The girl featured quit her low paying job that "only" paid $28,000 as an entry position (which is more than South Korea pays) for a better paying job as a bartender. Am I supposed to feel sorry for her? (Of course she not going to say on camera how much she is pulling in tips in her "sob story".
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Deja



Joined: 18 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is $20.000 in the US worth as much as $20.000 in Korea?
Where can I get a clean 65m2 officetel in the capitol of the US for 800$ a month? My sis paid $2000 for a 3 bedroom "space only" flat NEAR DC, not IN DC. ~100m2.

The biggest irony is that Alaskan salmon was cheaper at my E-Mart than in a NYC supermarket Wink
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Jyang486



Joined: 25 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deja wrote:
Is $20.000 in the US worth as much as $20.000 in Korea?
Where can I get a clean 65m2 officetel in the capitol of the US for 800$ a month? My sis paid $2000 for a 3 bedroom "space only" flat NEAR DC, not IN DC. ~100m2.

The biggest irony is that Alaskan salmon was cheaper at my E-Mart than in a NYC supermarket Wink


How close to DC? 3 bedroom apartment for $2k a month is pretty cheap. I'm trying to find a 2 bedroom for about that much that isn't in a gang infested area.
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Jyang486



Joined: 25 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: America's Wage Crisis Reply with quote

creeper1 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_3zmBUCVcI

I highly recommend the above video.

Some important points to take note of

- highly educated grads are taking useless jobs e.g bar tenders and working for tips.

- minimum wage is ridiculously low for service workers like $2.13 an hour

- a wall street hot shot is now reduced to working in a bar ACTUALLY I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM SINCE I HATE SPECULATORS AND BANKERS.

- people are struggling and going through living hell and absolute poverty.

To relate this back to Korea

Korea offers unparalleled quality of life for otherwise unemployable grads.

There won't be any increase in salaries (2.1 million on average) for a long, long time to come.


I really hope they don't increase minimum wage significantly, in Virginia like they did in Cali, or hope they at least set an age limit to the minimum wage increase. $10.00 is too much to pay high school students to do simple mind numbing tasks at my business.
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Deja



Joined: 18 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jyang486 wrote:
How close to DC? 3 bedroom apartment for $2k a month is pretty cheap. I'm trying to find a 2 bedroom for about that much that isn't in a gang infested area.

Not that close, around a 30-45 min. bike ride. I think she was specifically in Silverspring, MD.
She was on a J-1, so I thought that is quite expensive, and only because they are forced to use a specific flat as a result of J-1 requirements. It DID include all utilities/power and internet however.

Again, I never had a chance to be in the US for a long time, but I find it to be a lot more expensive for living than Korea, unless you go for the biggest crap food.
It's cheap to buy shit you don't need from the internet, especially tech stuff, but the basic stuff seems a lot more expensive Sad So comparing 20K in Korea vs. in the US just as numbers is a BS argument.
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davai!



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Location: Kuwait

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bartenders' wages and tips are taxed
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Jyang486



Joined: 25 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

creeper1: not sure who you are comparing who to. are you comparing american grads to korean grads? or american educated grads who decide to work in america to american educated grades who decide to work in korea, i.e. teaching english? because there's an unemployment crisis going on in korea among young korean grads.

@ deja: 30-45 minute bike ride is pretty darn close. there's people who commute almost two hours one way by car. but silver spring, maryland, is probably closer to 30-45 minutes by car, especially in rush hour traffic. your friend probably bikes to the nearest metro station.

davai! wrote:
bartenders' wages and tips are taxed


tips are only taxed if they are claimed in their tax forms. there's no way the irs can really know or have the resources to find out how much a person has earned in tips. not many people i've known in the service industry claimed all of their tips on their tax forms.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: America's Wage Crisis Reply with quote

Jyang486 wrote:
creeper1 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_3zmBUCVcI

I highly recommend the above video.

Some important points to take note of

- highly educated grads are taking useless jobs e.g bar tenders and working for tips.

- minimum wage is ridiculously low for service workers like $2.13 an hour

- a wall street hot shot is now reduced to working in a bar ACTUALLY I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM SINCE I HATE SPECULATORS AND BANKERS.

- people are struggling and going through living hell and absolute poverty.

To relate this back to Korea

Korea offers unparalleled quality of life for otherwise unemployable grads.

There won't be any increase in salaries (2.1 million on average) for a long, long time to come.


I really hope they don't increase minimum wage significantly, in Virginia like they did in Cali, or hope they at least set an age limit to the minimum wage increase. $10.00 is too much to pay high school students to do simple mind numbing tasks at my business.


I hope they raise it to $12/hour just to make cheapskate capitalists pay a living wage.

I hope you're not in NoVA. $10/hour is not a living wage there.

Anyone who works 40 hours per week should not live in poverty, or even near poverty. Period.
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Jyang486



Joined: 25 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: America's Wage Crisis Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Jyang486 wrote:
creeper1 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_3zmBUCVcI

I highly recommend the above video.

Some important points to take note of

- highly educated grads are taking useless jobs e.g bar tenders and working for tips.

- minimum wage is ridiculously low for service workers like $2.13 an hour

- a wall street hot shot is now reduced to working in a bar ACTUALLY I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM SINCE I HATE SPECULATORS AND BANKERS.

- people are struggling and going through living hell and absolute poverty.

To relate this back to Korea

Korea offers unparalleled quality of life for otherwise unemployable grads.

There won't be any increase in salaries (2.1 million on average) for a long, long time to come.


I really hope they don't increase minimum wage significantly, in Virginia like they did in Cali, or hope they at least set an age limit to the minimum wage increase. $10.00 is too much to pay high school students to do simple mind numbing tasks at my business.


I hope they raise it to $12/hour just to make cheapskate capitalists pay a living wage.

I hope you're not in NoVA. $10/hour is not a living wage there.

Anyone who works 40 hours per week should not live in poverty, or even near poverty. Period.


I am in NOVA, and high school students don't really require a living wage. The job I need them to do, run the cash register/restock toppings/clean, doesn't really require experience to do so, so $12 an hour would be ridiculous. A minimum wage should not be all encompassing. I'm not requiring them to do tech support, marketing for my business, or any of the other more experience intensive jobs. I also don't hire those with years of experience for a reason. There's some jobs that should require a minimum wage increase, but basic food service isn't one of them. I think $8.00 an hour is plenty to pay them for the job they do. If they increase the minimum wage, I will have to reduce staff and hours, which isn't any better, now is it?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jyang486 wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Jyang486 wrote:
creeper1 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_3zmBUCVcI

I highly recommend the above video.

Some important points to take note of

- highly educated grads are taking useless jobs e.g bar tenders and working for tips.

- minimum wage is ridiculously low for service workers like $2.13 an hour

- a wall street hot shot is now reduced to working in a bar ACTUALLY I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM SINCE I HATE SPECULATORS AND BANKERS.

- people are struggling and going through living hell and absolute poverty.

To relate this back to Korea

Korea offers unparalleled quality of life for otherwise unemployable grads.

There won't be any increase in salaries (2.1 million on average) for a long, long time to come.


I really hope they don't increase minimum wage significantly, in Virginia like they did in Cali, or hope they at least set an age limit to the minimum wage increase. $10.00 is too much to pay high school students to do simple mind numbing tasks at my business.


I hope they raise it to $12/hour just to make cheapskate capitalists pay a living wage.

I hope you're not in NoVA. $10/hour is not a living wage there.

Anyone who works 40 hours per week should not live in poverty, or even near poverty. Period.


I am in NOVA, and high school students don't really require a living wage. The job I need them to do, run the cash register/restock toppings/clean, doesn't really require experience to do so, so $12 an hour would be ridiculous. A minimum wage should not be all encompassing. I'm not requiring them to do tech support, marketing for my business, or any of the other more experience intensive jobs. I also don't hire those with years of experience for a reason. There's some jobs that should require a minimum wage increase, but basic food service isn't one of them. I think $8.00 an hour is plenty to pay them for the job they do. If they increase the minimum wage, I will have to reduce staff and hours, which isn't any better, now is it?


I'm not sure we should craft the living wage around the high schooler exception, particularly if small business employers are hiring exclusively high schoolers so they can depress wages. I'm also not sure your shop, or even your industry, should form the basis for state minimum wage policy.

Nevertheless, you should know that there are many exemptions from the minimum wage law.

Youth Exemption

Quote:
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires a minimum of not less than $4.25 per hour for employees under 20 years of age during their first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. After 90 days of employment, or when the worker reaches age 20 (whichever comes first), the worker must receive the minimum wage. Employers are prohibited from taking any action to displace employees in order to hire employees at the youth minimum wage. Also prohibited are partial displacements such as reducing employees’ hours, wages, or employment benefits.

Certain full-time students, student learners, apprentices and workers with disabilities may be paid less than the minimum wage under special certificates from the Secretary of Labor. This is commonly referred to as the sub-minimum wage.


Anyway, you say that unless you are exempted from the minimum wage you could not compete. But the minimum wage affects all businesses across the board. Therefore, you could raise prices together with all other businesses and pass the costs on to consumers. And that way you could stop displacing adult unemployed with high school labor.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyway, you say that unless you are exempted from the minimum wage you could not compete. But the minimum wage affects all businesses across the board. Therefore, you could raise prices together with all other businesses and pass the costs on to consumers. And that way you could stop displacing adult unemployed with high school labor.


Do you see any potential flaws with that plan?

The problem isn't wages. The problem is jobs. The death of the American manufacturing sector, coupled with the Wal-Martization leading to the death of small business is what is really killing America.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, you say that unless you are exempted from the minimum wage you could not compete. But the minimum wage affects all businesses across the board. Therefore, you could raise prices together with all other businesses and pass the costs on to consumers. And that way you could stop displacing adult unemployed with high school labor.


Do you see any potential flaws with that plan?

The problem isn't wages. The problem is jobs. The death of the American manufacturing sector, coupled with the Wal-Martization leading to the death of small business is what is really killing America.


No, the problems are low wages and too few jobs.

Productivity climbs but wages stagnate

Quote:
Wages have fallen to a record low as a share of America’s gross domestic product. Until 1975, wages nearly always accounted for more than 50 percent of the nation’s G.D.P., but last year wages fell to a record low of 43.5 percent. Since 2001, when the wage share was 49 percent, there has been a steep slide.


Notice productivity continues to increase while wages stagnate. This means productivity gains go into the hands of capital or consumers instead of labor.

Quote:
[O]verall employee compensation — including health and retirement benefits — has also slipped badly, falling to its lowest share of national income in more than 50 years while corporate profits have climbed to their highest share over that time.


I cannot believe you would bring up Walmart in opposition to minimum wage increases.

New Study Finds Wal-Mart’s Miserly Wages Cost Taxpayers

Quote:
California taxpayers are spending $86 million a year providing healthcare and other public assistance to the state’s 44,000 Wal-Mart employees, according to a new study by UC Berkeley’s Institute for Industrial Relations.

The study, “Hidden Cost of Wal-Mart Jobs,” found that the average Wal-Mart worker required $730 in taxpayer-funded healthcare and $1,222 in other forms of assistance, such as food stamps and subsidized housing, to [survive].

Even compared to other retailers, Wal-Mart imposes an especially large burden on taxpayers. Wal-Mart workers earn 31 percent less than the average for workers at large retail companies (more than 1,000 employees), the study found, and require 39 percent more in public assistance.
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Deja



Joined: 18 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Switzerland, Germany and Scandinavian countries are all open to Chinese imports.
Their taxes are higher than US taxes, their social contributions as well. Their minimum wage is however not just higher, but it is enough for a comfortable life. And their economies are doing good.

You think there are many "mom and pop" shops there? You think hygene requirements are not higher than in the US? You think their health system is in disarray as the US one? (that's a bad questions rather, the US health system is probably worse than Cuban for an average citizen)

Bottom line, you may not need to pay everyone a comfortable living wage, but they do need to earn enough to making a comfortable living with 40 hour weeks and not 70 hour weeks. That all produces a better country.
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Deja



Joined: 18 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jyang486 wrote:
@ deja: 30-45 minute bike ride is pretty darn close. there's people who commute almost two hours one way by car. but silver spring, maryland, is probably closer to 30-45 minutes by car, especially in rush hour traffic. your friend probably bikes to the nearest metro station.

No, a bike ride. She worked as a lifeguard, so she didn't need to care about ironed clothes or shoes at the workplace and could afford to "step on it". 10km was her journey to DC, so a 30 mins bike ride sounds more like it.

Again, I find that o be ridicolously expensive. My 65m flat with some utilities is 800$ a month (+~100$ average for power/gas). So comparing US and Korea simply by comparing numbers for the wages is ridicolous.
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