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So two guys rob a store
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Leon wrote:
optik404 wrote:
Of course the mom is going to blame someone other than her son. Typical response to a grieving parent.


Exactly, say what you will about how she could have raised them better or whatever, but to make fun of her or criticize her for her response after two of her kids died is kind of heartless. Unless this is somehow not as straight forward as it seems, not having sympathy for the two guys is appropriate, but I can sympathize with a mom who lost her kids regardless of how.


She's doing more than simply expressing remorse though, she's calling for "justice" to be inflicted upon the man who unfortunately had to defend himself from her son during his crime. No matter her emotional state that's unreasonable.


I didn't watch the video, can't where I am at, so yeah that's unreasonable. I would see it as understandable, still unreasonable, in the aftermath of this, or like for one day or so after the incident. Beyond that threshold of in the moment grief, in my opinion, then it's not really excusable or understandable. If she tried to take it to court, that would be even more so.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they wanted to "feed their families" - they could have just grabbed some food and ran. They didn't. They ROBBED a place with a GUN.

Very different, IMO.
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel very sorry for any mother who loses a son, especialy in such a violent manner. But her son was not a "good boy", he was a thug. He pointed a gun at another man's head and robbed him. Ideally he should be in jail for a long time, not a grave. But he was engaged in a violent crime, and the situation turned against him. Nice boys don't get a gun and mask and terrorize their heighborhoods. Having said that, do we know that both robbers pulled their guns on the citizen who was apprehending them? I'd like to see the video. Perhaps one pulled his gun, who should then have been shot. If the second robber didn't pull his gun, but was also shot, then there's an issue there. Either way, I'd like to see the video. Maybe the intervening citizen was a tad too enthusiastic. Perhaps he could have shot one then held the other for the police. I'd like to see the video.

Still, they weren't the good kids the family would have us believe. Maybe after they've grieved they'll realize the hard facts of the situation. At the moment, however, their emotions are likely blinding them to any rational consideration of what actually happened.

Guns suck.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
If they wanted to "feed their families" - they could have just grabbed some food and ran. They didn't. They ROBBED a place with a GUN.

My family used to run a corner store, and I remember my father often telling me if I catch a customer trying to steal legitimate food (not junk food), to be lenient on the customer. Luckily never encountered that, but often people would be short on money for things like bread, or milk, and I just say pay it back later.
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nora



Joined: 14 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
nora wrote:
Died by bear -TLDR

I agree with the others on this one. They got what they had coming. Also, millions of others in the majority of the US agree with them as well. Most states allow the use of deadly force by a citizen to stop a violent UCR felony. Armed robbery is included in that.

I feel terrible for the guy that shot them - his life could turn very dark very quickly. There were two incidents like this in my hometown, about five years apart. Two kids skipped school and tried to rob a pawn shop. One was shot and killed, the other was shot and paralyzed for life. The owners of the pawnshop had to sell the store and move because of threats from the "victims" families.

Second incident, in a Walgreens around the corner from the pawn shop, another kid pulls a shotgun on the store clerk. An armed citizen confronts him, the kid points the shotgun at the guy and is killed. Turns out, it was unloaded. Why he didn't just drop it and run, who knows. Anyway, same story. The guy was threatened by the poor baby's family.

Died by bear - if you don't want to confront an armed felon, that's your choice, and I totally support it. The odds that something goes wrong and you die are very real. At the same time, anyone who makes the decision to carry knows (or should know) the very really choice that they could have to make one day - to take another human life. The opposite choice being, possibly, allowing someone else to take a human life. I doubt anyone really wakes up hoping to have to make that choice.


Do you really think died by bear is serious in this post about sticking up for the robbers...?


Sticking up for the robbers? No, I don't. I DO think he is serious in saying that the guy should have called the cops and not shot him, and it's that point with which I disagree. I also support his point of view, FOR HIM. If he (or anyone) were to be in that situation, and they don't want to confront the person, that's their choice. I'll never question a person's integrity/manliness/intelligence/anything for NOT confronting a dangerous situation. I WILL question a person who does so and violates the law, i.e. shooting a person in the back, shooting a person who surrenders, shooting a person who is not a threat, etc. But when a person kills another person who is engaged in a violent UCR felony (or its equivalent elsewhere in the world) and does so legally, I won't question that.
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with most in this thread that the threat of lethal violence warrants a lethal defense. Maybe if enough people kill each other the US will smarten up and do something about its gun problem.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
If they wanted to "feed their families" - they could have just grabbed some food and ran. They didn't. They ROBBED a place with a GUN.

My family used to run a corner store, and I remember my father often telling me if I catch a customer trying to steal legitimate food (not junk food), to be lenient on the customer. Luckily never encountered that, but often people would be short on money for things like bread, or milk, and I just say pay it back later.


Exactly. Someone stealing a loaf of bread, or a litre of milk - I have a fair bit of sympathy and compassion for them.

Ramming a car through a window to get a smokes, or holding up a shop with a gun - that's purely criminal.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget about me, think of that poor mom that lost her son.

Do you really think this young man intended to kill anyone, or that his intention was to get enough money together to pay for a state mandated child support amount of cash?

Answer that question honestly - to yourself, and then let's talk some more.


The boys should have gone to jail, period. There was no killing needed here. That's what jails are for, criminals like this need to serve time. We're not supposed to kill people for these kinds of crimes.



I think it's amazing how we all talk about world peace, give to charity, some of us go to church, whatever - and then we're so quick to say "They deserved it, they got what they had coming" and not value how precious life is.

Somehow I get the feeling that some of you think that life is cheap if you come from the wrong side of the tracks. One less human alive, that's a horrible attitude. It's okay if someone dies because they made a rash decision? Nigga please. Rolling Eyes
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
Forget about me, think of that poor mom that lost her son.

Do you really think this young man intended to kill anyone, or that his intention was to get enough money together to pay for a state mandated child support amount of cash?

Answer that question honestly - to yourself, and then let's talk some more.


You pull out a gun in a robbery - yeah, I there's intention to harm.

And that stuff about him having to pay child support - seriously?? Get a job! And if ya can't get a job, don't pay! What's the worst that could happen in the US - go to jail? So be it - at least you're not harming others.


Quote:
The boys should have gone to jail, period. There was no killing needed here. That's what jails are for, criminals like this need to serve time. We're not supposed to kill people for these kinds of crimes.


Oh, are they "boys" now? Young lads, as it were? Just a couple of kids out for some kicks?



Quote:
I think it's amazing how we all talk about world peace, give to charity, some of us go to church, whatever - and then we're so quick to say "They deserved it, they got what they had coming" and not value how precious life is.


I don't go to church - have no desire to. And I rarely talk about world peace and the like. I'm really not that idealistic.

Quote:
Somehow I get the feeling that some of you think that life is cheap if you come from the wrong side of the tracks. One less human alive, that's a horrible attitude. It's okay if someone dies because they made a rash decision? Nigga please. Rolling Eyes


Life is cheap.

We just lost around 10,000 to a storm in the philippines. 10,000 people that did nothing but live in the wrong place.

So yeah, when put in any perspective, these guys got what they deserved. No sympathy from me.
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol one of the robbers was 24 years old....not what I would call a child. Even the younger of the two was 18 years old, old enough to know better. These weren't a couple of 13 year old choirboys. They'd been around the block a time or two.

The ONLY unfortunate thing about this entire incident are the possible repercussions to the real victims in this case, the store owner and the individual who was forced to defend himself.

The fact these two armed robbers family members would have the audacity to go to the media and cry foul just shows what type of people they are.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:


Ramming a car through a window to get a smokes,


Actually, I kinda have a bit of sympathy there....If you're so addicted to nicotine or the drug that you are going to trade those cartons for that you are willing to risk destruction of a vehicle, likely worth more than the smokes, then you need some medical help or some sort of ironic punishment, not getting gunned down.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what America needs is more access to mental health care, and fewer guns. I own guns, but I don't want to have to use one to kill someone. I'd like to just use them for hunting and target practice at the range.

I don't carry on a daily basis. Working for DoD on a military installation doesn't really put me in any danger. If I had to live in neighborhoods like the one in the article, I probably wouldn't carry either. I just don't like the idea of having to kill someone.

If the police can't catch the perps and do their job, then imho the criminals should be allowed to go. Report to the cops. Don't draw down on anyone unless absolutely necessary. I don't think those guys wanted to shoot anyone.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:


Ramming a car through a window to get a smokes,


Actually, I kinda have a bit of sympathy there....If you're so addicted to nicotine or the drug that you are going to trade those cartons for that you are willing to risk destruction of a vehicle, likely worth more than the smokes, then you need some medical help or some sort of ironic punishment, not getting gunned down.


I was meaning more - stealing a car, and ramming it for smokes (to sell). Was a trend in my city years back.
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
I think what America needs is more access to mental health care, and fewer guns.


Agreed.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:


Ramming a car through a window to get a smokes,


Actually, I kinda have a bit of sympathy there....If you're so addicted to nicotine or the drug that you are going to trade those cartons for that you are willing to risk destruction of a vehicle, likely worth more than the smokes, then you need some medical help or some sort of ironic punishment, not getting gunned down.


I was meaning more - stealing a car, and ramming it for smokes (to sell). Was a trend in my city years back.


We really need more economics courses for our young criminals. Don't they realize that they could probably fetch more from a stolen vehicle in mint condition, say a nice SUV, than from 100 cartons of cigarettes? (though with cigarette prices these days...) and the opportunity cost of adding larceny charges on top of your carjacking ones really makes it unfeasible.
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