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Former US def secretary claims Koreas close to war in 2010
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saram_



Joined: 13 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Former US def secretary claims Koreas close to war in 2010 Reply with quote

http://timshorrock.com/?p=1997

Some really interesting and controversial points about the situation in Korea being made by Robert Gates (former US secretary) in his book "Duty" that's just been released..

The Korean government wanted to make a strong retaliation to the North's shelling of the islands off of Incheon near the border back in 2010 but were basically forced out of it by the US administration. They were ready to strike with aircraft and artillery. (That would have made things interesting).

Also Gates' made a claim that a previous president Noh Moo Hyun was ' a little bit crazy'- just because he didn't fully support the US viewpoint..

I don't think Korean people will be too impressed to hear either of these stories. They cannot be puppets of the US forever..

Article from The Korea Times picking up on the story with more details.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/01/116_149824.html


Last edited by saram_ on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think Korean people will be too impressed to hear either of these stories. They cannot be puppets of the US forever..


You think they'd have rather had the opportunity to realiate without US military support?
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saram_



Joined: 13 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I think the episode demonstrates more than anything is that it's the US that are controlling what's happening on the peninsula regarding the situation with the North...
The S.K government is quite limited in what it can or can't do.

That may or may not be a good thing but you'd wonder how much freedom the Korean administration has itself to do what it thinks is right on its own turf.
The US (and the Chinese) are very pleased to keep the stalemate.

How would the US react if they were repeatedly attacked and provoked by a neighbor... I just wonder.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama should have supported the South Koreans if they wanted to hit some military targets in retaliation for the shelling of the island and the sinking of the Cheonan by the North.

The argument against it is "But then what would the Chinese have done?" Newbies, like Obama was in 2010, are generally not very convincing at brinksmanship. He wouldn't be very convincing now. That's part of the problem, too.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I think the episode demonstrates more than anything is that it's the US that are controlling what's happening on the peninsula regarding the situation with the North...
The S.K government is quite limited in what it can or can't do.



No one party controls 100% of anything but the chaebol have as much influence as anyone, behind the scenes. Their influence over the South Korean politicians and, to some extent, the dictators in the North is not to be underestimated while they also have power in Japan, China and Washington. Why do you think Kaesong was reopened so quickly? The chaebol needs it to maintain its economic influence over NK and they get whatever they want.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dairyairy wrote:
Obama should have supported the South Koreans if they wanted to hit some military targets in retaliation for the shelling of the island and the sinking of the Cheonan by the North.

The argument against it is "But then what would the Chinese have done?" Newbies, like Obama was in 2010, are generally not very convincing at brinksmanship. He wouldn't be very convincing now. That's part of the problem, too.


Or.... what would the North Koreans have done, that seems to be a more relevant concern considering how close Seoul is.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
dairyairy wrote:
Obama should have supported the South Koreans if they wanted to hit some military targets in retaliation for the shelling of the island and the sinking of the Cheonan by the North.

The argument against it is "But then what would the Chinese have done?" Newbies, like Obama was in 2010, are generally not very convincing at brinksmanship. He wouldn't be very convincing now. That's part of the problem, too.


Or.... what would the North Koreans have done, that seems to be a more relevant concern considering how close Seoul is.


As I recall the vulnerability of Incheon airport was also a factor. All things to consider.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The scenario wouldn't be a major catastrophe if it wasn't for China (the country that should not be).

Last edited by young_clinton on Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roh Moo-hyun was more than crazy, he was an utter idiot. That part Gates got right.
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saram_



Joined: 13 May 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I hear and see here..

Former President, Roh Moo-hyun is well enough respected.
I am not sure where this "crazy" stuff comes from..

There is/has been a really popular movie showing in screens here recently, "The Attorney" depicting his early life as a human rights activist. It has struck a nerve with Korean society it seems. In his early days Roh Moo-Hyun was seen as a defender of Rights etc for citizens..democracy etc..

This article is really interesting and apparently this movie depicts a lot about what is happening these days in Korean society. Less power for the people.
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_entertainment/618083.html

From what I gather, not just in this article but talking to a lot of Korean adults here he has a lot more respect than say 2MB or the current Miss Park.

As somebody said, he has been one of the best of a bad bunch of uninspiring leaders in this country..
I will look a bit further into this 'crazy' or "idiotic" claim though. Seems a bit overboard when you consider the different leaders that have been in charge here.
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a bunch of BS.

Nothing changed.
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saram_ wrote:
From what I hear and see here..

Former President, Roh Moo-hyun is well enough respected.
I am not sure where this "crazy" stuff comes from..

There is/has been a really popular movie showing in screens here recently, "The Attorney" depicting his early life as a human rights activist. It has struck a nerve with Korean society it seems. In his early days Roh Moo-Hyun was seen as a defender of Rights etc for citizens..democracy etc..

This article is really interesting and apparently this movie depicts a lot about what is happening these days in Korean society. Less power for the people.
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_entertainment/618083.html

From what I gather, not just in this article but talking to a lot of Korean adults here he has a lot more respect than say 2MB or the current Miss Park.

As somebody said, he has been one of the best of a bad bunch of uninspiring leaders in this country..
I will look a bit further into this 'crazy' or "idiotic" claim though. Seems a bit overboard when you consider the different leaders that have been in charge here.


I'm not a defender of any Korean president but Roh was really down there, and I remember his approval rating went to as low as 11 percent in the final year of his term. I talked to a media worker and he said Roh was at the time considered a major idiot by the Korean people because he touted his achievements (whatever they were) as president in his final year, when the job and economic situation really took a nosedive.

Despite his "priority" on human rights, he opted to ignore the plight of North Korean defectors for the sake of rapprochement with North Korea, as did his predecessor Kim Dae-jung. I know that MB was corrupt but he openly blasted the North for how it was treating its people.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, the Koreans I talked to about this were more concerned about the "Crazy" comment - felt is was the biggest insult. Laughing


saram_ wrote:
From what I gather, not just in this article but talking to a lot of Korean adults here he has a lot more respect than say 2MB or the current Miss Park.


Depends who ya talk to. Most of the ppl I talk to over 40 despised Noh.

It really is the circles ya run in.
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this war talk has been going on for decades! And nothing happens. Just both sides blowing smoke. Both sides whine and cry...the north every once in a while..attacks and does some damage and has actually killed a number of folks over the years...but the south just....does nothing. And those in charge of the U.S. side blow smoke also!
Get it on...get it over with...settle this BS!
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interesting thing will be if North Korea does anything close to the 2010 shelling of Yeonpyeong Island. South Korea says it will strongly retaliate if that happens again (per President Park Geun-hye and Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin), so it'll be interesting if Pyongyang tries a provocation.

That said, the belligerent stance of the North seems to indicate (and I could be wrong) that things there are really bad and that Pyongyang is getting desperate.
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