Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Difficult pronounciation for Koreans
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Len8



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:07 am    Post subject: Difficult pronounciation for Koreans Reply with quote

I saw somewhere on the bulletin several entries about the English pronounciation Koreans have difficulty with. Right now I can't seem to find it.
I know they have a hard time with "r" and "l", "th" "f" "b" and "v".

Are there any other good examples about pronounciation people have come across, or if the original posting that I think I saw somewhere on Daves Esl is still available, could somebody direct me to it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't direct you to that link.. but I know it exists.. while you are waiting for someone who can.. i have a little 'r' and 'l' story to help pass the time.. Smile

This was during the Clinton years.. and one of my students kept asking me about the Presidential's Erection. I was like 'what?'.. then the other students in the classroom 'you don't know the Presidential's Erection?'.. and i was thinking.. 'aahmm.... well..'.. and to make a long story short it took me a good 15 minutes but they meant 'presidential Election'.

Okay, hope someone can find that link for you..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kim jong il



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Pyongyang room salon with a pocket full of rice!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can add 'w' and 'z' to that list. they'll typically prounouce the 'z' like a 'j", as in pija, instead of pizza. koreans know the 'w' sound from their alphabet, but when they see a 'w' followed by an 'o', they want to make an 'oo' sound, like in zoo. they'll mispronounce words like wood and wolf, with ood and olf.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I can't find that thread either. I gave a big dumb dissertation about why Koreans can't pronounce "w" and "y" in certain instances.

Also, Koreans can't naturally make the "i" sound. And when you start trying to explain all the tiny little variations that exist between s, g, dg, and z, well...have fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Koreans are overstressed about the pronunciation thing. A Korean speaker of English is easier for North Americans to understand than one from Nigeria, or India, or (sometimes) Scotland. It's usually not the big deal they think it is, and when it comes right down to it they're NEVER going to sound just like native speakers, despite the fantasy hogwons pedal.

But here are a few drills I like to do to tackle and correct common pronunciation issues. Just my 2 cents:

Ask your students how to say in English, "hwae" ... you'll likely get the response, "low fish". Two things going on there - L/R, and the ow/aw vowel sound. Not only will they mispronounce raw, but also law (again, "low"), and saw ("see-so"). It's worth running through with them. The aw/ow is easily corrected - it's no problem for them to make the sound - they just need to be corrected.

Another easy one - get them to count to five. 4 is frequently pronounced "fo" (as in "fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell the blood of a waeguk") - the R doesn't become L, but is rather jettisoned somewhere into the Sea of Japan. By extention, the thing they opened to enter the classroom is the "doe"... when correcting this and others, try to do it with humour (though don't make them feel like idiots either - adult students especially have a lot of ego wrapped up in their English ability).

I like writing three words on the board that have many of the Korean pronunciation difficulties (travel, Trevor, trouble - for example) and writing 1, 2, and 3 next to them. Then I get the students to say one of the words and the others have to guess what word it was they said.

It's surprising how hard it is for them to recognize as well as make these sounds which are so distinct to us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I posted not long ago about some of the pronunciation problems. A big one is the many blends in English that do not exist in Korean. And the "hangulization" of English words (or just "borrowing" I guess), which changes the pronunciation. If you look at a movie title, for instance, you can see an English word like "crash" written in hangul to approximate the sound "Kuh Lash ee" --- and the lower level students who have difficulty pronouncing English making these kids of pronunciation errors all the time because, I would guess that perhaps half of all English words use sounds that don't exist in Korean. How about "teach - uh"?

Anyway there's "r" and "l", "f", "z" and "v"

"th" and all blends except "ch" seem to cause trouble.

And ending words adding that vowel sound:

"Englishee is a strangee sounduh languagee, berry dippicultuh" is something a poor pronouncer might say.

And for some reason it is hard to get them in the habit of pronouncing the short "o" vowel sound correctly. Try writing on the the board words like "long", "dog" or "pocket monsters" and the poor pronouncers will say:

"Doh - guh" , "lowng", "Poh Ket Moan suh tuh" ------- after all that is how they see these things written in Hangul. And then they are surprised you pronounce them differently. They may have trouble understanding the native speaker because he is pronouncing it correctly, not in "Konglish"---- frustrating indeed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my students often says "u juh" for "use" ... another good one, and he wears black "shoo juh" on his feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sid



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Berkshire, England

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lemon wrote:
A Korean speaker of English is easier for North Americans to understand than one from Nigeria, or India, or (sometimes) Scotland.


Must be a North American listening problem, as a well-educated Indian speaks better English than just about anybody. Many of the big callcentres for British companies are out there now. Agree about the Scots though.

On topic: That previous thread was good, must be around here somewhere! I was always hesitant to teach any pronounciation with adult classes but did it a lot the with the kids. Hand gestures to distinguish long and short vowels seemed to go down quite well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 8:27 pm    Post subject: Difficult pronounciation Reply with quote

The "v" sound doesn't exist in Korean, and I usually have to make a "v" sign with my arms to get my point across to the students. They have difficulty in distinguishing "b" from "v", and when they do pronounce the "v" it comes out as voree or a vuweee. There b's come out as borees as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no English sounds that a Korean tongue can't eventually master. I think the breakthrough comes when the learner stops visualizing Korean orthography -- ambiguous consonants & extraneous vowels in Hangeul lead to uncertainty & mistakes in speaking. A lot of mispronunciation is simply bad habit picked up from & reinforced by Korean English teachers.

But I'm not convinced that native-like pronunciation is all that important or necessary. French or Spanish speakers of English also struggle with our r's and th's (& Brits drop their r's much like Koreans) but we look past that to what the speaker wants to communicate. There are so many accents out there, part of what makes English so rich & interesting. How much time do we waste on minimal pair exercises when the fact is, native speakers are varied & sloppy in their pronunciation too & generally rely on context for meaning.

I tease my students with words they can't say (wood, year, girl) but I keep it lighthearted. Better they should feel unconstrained to express their ideas. When I dont get what theyre meaning to say, then we go into pronunciation concerns.

True to my moniker, I do make a point of teaching about schwa -- the commonest sound in English & the key to good listening comprehension. Once my students get a handle on English rhythm & stress, their confidence blossoms.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mokpochica



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:00 pm    Post subject: IPA/EPA Reply with quote

I've been thinking about teaching the IPA (international Phonetic Alphabet) to some of my more advanced students to help them out with reading pronunciation cues as spelled out in their dictionaries. Today I found some sites that I thought might be useful for myself and others. You can also find some of this information (geared toward Korean learners) in a good dictionary and photocopy it for your students to go over.

Here are the sites. The first has sound bytes included:
http://multiweb.lib.calpoly.edu/medialib/epa/index.html

http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/fullchart.html

These resources are probably best for older learners, and even they would likely need much guidance from a teacher.

(Maybe Koreans are taught these symbols by Korean teachers of English as well? I have no idea at what level)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: IPA/EPA Reply with quote

mokpochica wrote:
(Maybe Koreans are taught these symbols by Korean teachers of English as well? I have no idea at what level)


Those symbols are in my middle school book, but I've never seen anyone do anything with them...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Must be a North American listening problem, as a well-educated Indian speaks better English than just about anybody.


I've certainly met many Indians with excellent pronunciation. But I also met Mr. Sandhu, my Grade 11 Chemistry teacher. Friendly man, undoubtably well educated, but (to my and my classmates' ears) completely unintelligible.

And he's working in the Canadian school system. The point: Korean speakers of English don't need to stress out over their pronunciation. They need to both expand their vocabulary and increase their confidence so they can get the idea from their brain out their mouth (and frig the grammar) without having to write it all down in advance.

I happily mangle the Korean language every time I open my mouth. But I'm not a big stressball about it (like many Koreans are with English). And as long as I'm understood, I'm happy. I figure I'm better off breaking rules but accomplishing my task, than knowing perfect grammar but too scared to ever open my mouth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Len8



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:22 pm    Post subject: Difficult pronounciation for koreans Reply with quote

What is the "schwa" sound. I have heard the term a lot, but I just can't seem to get a handle on it. Please enlighten me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schwa is the short soft 'uh' sound we substitute for most unstressed vowels. We say buh-NA-nuh, Koreans say BA-NA-NA. Once Koreans grasp this, it opens the door toward more natural-sounding speech rhythms & better comprehension of spoken english.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International