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Racist Chicken in Itaewon
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
bangbayed wrote:

Again, if you're really wondering if this issue is racist, go ask a black person. That is, if you know any.


The above statement is a great example of the white tendency to fetishize blacks. The best mass media examples of this are The Legend of Baggar Vance, The Green Mile and Guinan from TNG. Bangbayed thinks it racist but can not really explain why so instead he relies on a mystical ability that any random black person has to establish morality.


Jeez you gotta be kidding. It's fetishizing blacks to ask for their opinion on whether something is racist or not? There's nothing magical about having their opinion on this issue. Get your FOX news talking points outta here.

And I'm not white either.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
go ask a black person


Is fetishizing black people.

Quote:
There's nothing magical about having their opinion on this issue.


Holding it up as inherently authoritative is assigning a mystical quality to their opinions.

Quote:
Get your FOX news talking points outta here.


I don't watch tv news and anyway Fox would never have someone on who expresses opinions similar to mine.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Quote:
go ask a black person


Is fetishizing black people.

Quote:
There's nothing magical about having their opinion on this issue.


Holding it up as inherently authoritative is assigning a mystical quality to their opinions.

Quote:
Get your FOX news talking points outta here.


I don't watch tv news and anyway Fox would never have someone on who expresses opinions similar to mine.


So authority=mysticism. Alrighty then.

Also: http://crooksandliars.com/heather/fox-allows-magic-negro-text-message-be-bro

But actually I was mistaken in referencing FOX. I meant Rush Limbaugh: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_the_Magic_Negro

Potatoes Potahtoes.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm far right, not an American conservative. We don't dillydally.

Quote:
So authority=mysticism. Alrighty then.


Yes, inherent moral authority is mystical.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
I'm far right, not an American conservative. We don't dillydally.

Quote:
So authority=mysticism. Alrighty then.


Yes, inherent moral authority is mystical.


Well I think you've pretty much said everything we need to know here. Thanks.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangbayed wrote:

And I'm not white either.


So you are a non-White person telling White people their arguments, ideas, and opinions in a given topic are automatically less accurate purely because of their race, while simultaneous bemoaning racism?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox, this is what he said.

bangbayed wrote:
Chaparrastique wrote:
Its mostly just naivety.

Koreans aren't really that racist.

Just ignorant of how the rest of the world works.

Westerners are hypersensitive.

So what if black americans are fond of fried chicken. Different ethnic groups have different culinary tastes. Koreans are fond of raw fish, Italians are fond of pasta. Is it "racist" to say so?


Ah so easy for some people to be lackadaisical about ignorance and racism.
"So what if <insert whole group of people> are/like <adjective or general object>". Do you see any potential problem with that sentence construction? If not, ask a black person.


He is saying that some people are lack[s]adaisical about ignorance and racism. He is saying that we should consult black people as to the ignorance of the sentence "So what if black americans are fond of friend chicken." Presumably, its black americans who would be best placed to identify whether black americans collectively or as individuals enjoy fried chicken. It has nothing to do with fetishization or any other such nonsense.

He is right in his later post; you guys are being (needlessly) defensive.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:

He is saying that some people are lack[s]adaisical about ignorance and racism. He is saying that we should consult black people as to the ignorance of the sentence "So what if black americans are fond of friend chicken." Presumably, its black americans who would be best placed to identify whether black americans collectively or as individuals enjoy fried chicken.


You know very well that the issue at hand is not whether or not Black people, individually or collectively, enjoy fried chicken. If that were the dilemma, a simple statistical survey could provide a concrete answer which would be no less the authoritative for a White man voicing it. No, he took issue with sentences of a particular sentence construction being voiced by White men here, and unable to explain the problem with it, told us to go ask Black people.

I don't think it's fetishization of Blacks; when I ask my exceedingly reasonable sister-in-law to be about the issue and she confirms my position, even if I report back to our fellow here, his opinion will not change. It's not "Blacks are right," it's, "You, as a White man, are wrong, because you are White" phrased in a round about way to try to hide its real character. It's a tactic, eroding a group's moral standing to achieve rhetorical high ground.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and since evidently this thread has suddenly become a sincere investigation into whether Black Americans like chicken or not, here is some data.

Quote:
Meat consumption by race or ethnicity in the United States
(in retail weight pounds per person per year)

Chicken:
-White 50.4
-Black 77.9
-Hispanic 55.4
-Other 56.4


And so what if they like it? So do I.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems more in bad taste than racist.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
Seems more in bad taste than racist.


Exactly. My point was pretty simple. If you want to do find out if something is racist to black people, simply ask them. Usually it shouldn't come to that point, being reasonable adults. However there seems to have been some confusion about whether the saying "black people love fried chicken" was racist or not, given the history of racist images of black people in the US. In particular,I'm referring to stereotypical connotations and associations with fried chicken, watermelon, and other items which may seem innocent enough but in a historical context is degrading to many blacks.

If you doubt this history, I urge you to do a google search of "blacks" and "fried chicken" or "watermelon" and judge for yourself.

This might be news to some of you. If so, I apologize for assuming you knew and being condescending.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Oh, and since evidently this thread has suddenly become a sincere investigation into whether Black Americans like chicken or not, here is some data.

Quote:
Meat consumption by race or ethnicity in the United States
(in retail weight pounds per person per year)

Chicken:
-White 50.4
-Black 77.9
-Hispanic 55.4
-Other 56.4


And so what if they like it? So do I.


There's nothing inherently offensive about saying that black people, or anyone else, are big fans of a certain type of food.

The problem with the fried-chicken thing is not that it's inaccurate, but that it has become a synechdoche for a larger negative stereotype. So, when people talk about blacks and fried-chicken, often(though not always) they are trying to reference the rest of the stereotype as well. You're not gonna tell me that the people who made this, for example, just used fried-chicken imagery because statistics showed that that's what African-Americans like to eat.

As a comparison, it's probably true that westerners in Korea like hamburgers more than Koreans do. But suppose there were a comedy show in Korea featuring a character called Joe Cracker, who likes to leer at Korean women while smoking a huge joint and wolfing down a Big Mac. I think we know what the agenda would be if kids at some hagwon somewhere started showing up for class and asking the teacher "Hey, you want Big Mac?"
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:

The problem with the fried-chicken thing is not that it's inaccurate, but that it has become a synechdoche for a larger negative stereotype. So, when people talk about blacks and fried-chicken, often(though not always) they are trying to reference the rest of the stereotype as well. You're not gonna tell me that the people who made this, for example, just used fried-chicken imagery because statistics showed that that's what African-Americans like to eat.


All right, but look at the quote to which I was responding:

Quote:
Ah so easy for some people to be lackadaisical about ignorance and racism.
"So what if <insert whole group of people> are/like <adjective or general object>". Do you see any potential problem with that sentence construction? If not, ask a black person.


Given you just said, "There's nothing inherently offensive about saying that black people, or anyone else, are big fans of a certain type of food," you're ultimately weighing in on my side of that matter, because you're saying there's nothing wrong with the sentence construction in and of itself.

That said, I don't even think the Obama dollar is particularly problematic. It's blatantly stupid, but almost everything that comes out of America these days is blatantly stupid. It has the potential to offend people, but so do an immense number of other things. The problem here isn't racism, it's the fact that the common man inclines towards the infantile, and as I see it, quibbling over petty rules and fretting over who may or may not be offended by stupid jokes is likely to exacerbate that problem rather than mitigate it. When people liken this kind of crap to lynchings, slavery, or even criminal sentencing disparity and employment discrimination by calling it "racism," they're trivializing what ought not to be trivialized.

On the other hand wrote:
As a comparison, it's probably true that westerners in Korea like hamburgers more than Koreans do. But suppose there were a comedy show in Korea featuring a character called Joe Cracker, who likes to leer at Korean women while smoking a huge joint and wolfing down a Big Mac.


Sounds like the kind of inanity that would pass for a SNL skit. The important thing is that amount of insecurity I would feel in response to such a skit is zero, and if one of my students were to jokingly make a reference to it, I'd chuckle if it was done wittily or take issue if it was done disruptively.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Fox, this is what he said.

bangbayed wrote:
Chaparrastique wrote:
Its mostly just naivety.

Koreans aren't really that racist.

Just ignorant of how the rest of the world works.

Westerners are hypersensitive.

So what if black americans are fond of fried chicken. Different ethnic groups have different culinary tastes. Koreans are fond of raw fish, Italians are fond of pasta. Is it "racist" to say so?


Ah so easy for some people to be lackadaisical about ignorance and racism.
"So what if <insert whole group of people> are/like <adjective or general object>". Do you see any potential problem with that sentence construction? If not, ask a black person.


He is saying that some people are lack[s]adaisical about ignorance and racism. He is saying that we should consult black people as to the ignorance of the sentence "So what if black americans are fond of friend chicken." Presumably, its black americans who would be best placed to identify whether black americans collectively or as individuals enjoy fried chicken.


When I was teaching in Korea. A black teacher who everybody liked, stated on a bus that everybody thought that he wanted to go to Popeye's just because he was black, and blacks like fried chicken. He was kidding around. Blacks like fried chicken. It tastes good and for some reason they like it a lot. Why should people have to refer back to the black community whether or not blacks like something? What is it that you're trying to show anyway that is important or meaningful? Also in the same sense wouldn't it be better to refer back to the American community what their fellow Americans, Black Americans like or dislike? Since you appear not to be an American this is especially true. I doubt very seriously if you give a damn about Black Americans anyway.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:

Quote:
Since you appear not to be an American this is especially true.


To the extent that anything can be known about anyone on-line, I think it's pretty safe to say that Kuros is an American,
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