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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Zombie science
"Although the classical ideal is that scientific theories are evaluated by a careful teasing-out of their internal logic and external implications, and checking whether these deductions and predictions are in-line-with old and new observations; the fact that so many vague, dumb or incoherent scientific theories are apparently believed by so many scientists for so many years is suggestive that this ideal does not necessarily reflect real world practice. In the real world it looks more like most scientists are quite willing to pursue wrong ideas for so long as they are rewarded with a better chance of achieving more grants, publications and status."
To say "that the theory is phoney, and always was phoney, and this is why it so singularly fails to predict reality is regarded as simplistic, crass, merely a sign of lack of sophistication. And anyway, there are... the reputations of numerous scientists who are now successful and powerful on the back of the phoney theory, and who by now control the peer review process (including allocation of grants, publications and jobs) so there is a powerful disincentive against upsetting the apple cart."
"Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down." "Zombie science is supported because it is useful propaganda. Zombie science is deployed in arenas such as political rhetoric, public administration, management, public relations, marketing and the mass media generally. It persuades, it constructs taboos, it buttresses some kind of rhetorical attempt to shape mass opinion. Indeed, zombie science often comes across in the mass media as being more plausible than real science."
Debunking Evolution: problems between the theory and reality; the false science of evolution
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
http://www.newgeology.us/List.pdf |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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The very first paragraph of your first link shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what evolution is.
The problem is, creationists abusing the term "macroevolution" as a strawman in arguments against proponents of the theory of evolution. "Macroevolution" does not exist in the short term, science is aware of this. Cows don't suddenly sprout flippers and become whales. Duh!
"Macroevolution" is simply microevolution given lots (!!) of time.
Since apparently the rest of that boatload of an article bases itself on the assumption that macroevolution doesn't suddenly happen, it's actually in agreement with science and evolutionary theory and debunks precisely nothing. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
Zombie science
"Although the classical ideal is that scientific theories are evaluated by a careful teasing-out of their internal logic and external implications, and checking whether these deductions and predictions are in-line-with old and new observations; the fact that so many vague, dumb or incoherent scientific theories are apparently believed by so many scientists for so many years is suggestive that this ideal does not necessarily reflect real world practice. In the real world it looks more like most scientists are quite willing to pursue wrong ideas for so long as they are rewarded with a better chance of achieving more grants, publications and status."
To say "that the theory is phoney, and always was phoney, and this is why it so singularly fails to predict reality is regarded as simplistic, crass, merely a sign of lack of sophistication. And anyway, there are... the reputations of numerous scientists who are now successful and powerful on the back of the phoney theory, and who by now control the peer review process (including allocation of grants, publications and jobs) so there is a powerful disincentive against upsetting the apple cart."
"Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down." "Zombie science is supported because it is useful propaganda. Zombie science is deployed in arenas such as political rhetoric, public administration, management, public relations, marketing and the mass media generally. It persuades, it constructs taboos, it buttresses some kind of rhetorical attempt to shape mass opinion. Indeed, zombie science often comes across in the mass media as being more plausible than real science."
Debunking Evolution: problems between the theory and reality; the false science of evolution
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
http://www.newgeology.us/List.pdf |
You're a fool. To believe that you have to believe that there is not a single, ethical scientist on the planet. That there is a massive conspiracy by scientists to hide 'zombie science' just to get funding. Then you must believe the funds granting bodies are part of this conspiracy. Then you have to believe that scientists (the people who invented the modern world and all its wonders) are not really interested in doing science after all. After spending a decade in university learning how to do science, they are content to get up each morning and do research into a field of study they know to be scientifically wrong. Then write books about that field that they know there is no evidence for. Then you have to believe that creationists, people who think the earth is 5000 years old, have broken the code. And where did they find this code? In a book about angels, demons, gods and talking snakes, of course.
Anyone who denies the FACT of evolution is a fool and shouldn't be anywhere near a classroom. They also have a very jaundiced view of science and scientists, not to mention the character of scientists. "Money. Money. Money. The truth be damned....Give me money." How cynical can you be? And why have no scientists, after retiring and the research funds have dried up, written books exposing the conspiracy? Because there is none. Evolution happened, and every scientist worthy of the name knows it happened. They may say that YHWH, Baal, Zeus or Harry Potter was behind it all. But they do accept the fact that it happened. That your particular cult can't accept the fact of evolution has no bearing on the fact that it happened. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| This thread is going in circles - Im getting dizzy... |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| This thread is going in circles - Im getting dizzy... |
That's all they ever do. Round and round and round. This debate got tired decades ago when the creationists (YE creationists at least) lost it. The problem is, they keep coming up with more crazy theories to try and shoehorn YEC into our current understanding of the geologic timeline, when all it really takes to crap up their whole argument is a little bit of radiometric dating - a reliable, proven procedure that science has been effectively using for over a hundred years now. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| This thread is going in circles - Im getting dizzy... |
some medicine for nausea
HTH
/troll
The link is actually an intriguing read. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| This thread is going in circles - Im getting dizzy... |
some medicine for nausea
HTH
/troll
The link is actually an intriguing read. |
Youre preaching to the converted mate...
There must be some kind of internet-forum phenomenon, where a thread goes in a full circle (and continues to do so) after so many posts because people refuse to read what was written prior to the two or three posts they just read.
Thats not trolling, its a polite request for people to inject something new into the discussion or leave it. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| This thread is going in circles - Im getting dizzy... |
some medicine for nausea
HTH
/troll
The link is actually an intriguing read. |
Youre preaching to the converted mate...
There must be some kind of internet-forum phenomenon, where a thread goes in a full circle (and continues to do so) after so many posts because people refuse to read what was written prior to the two or three posts they just read.
Thats not trolling, its a polite request for people to inject something new into the discussion or leave it. |
harumph
What new thing could possibly be injected into a debate of this nature, though? I tend not to participate in cyclical debate topics for precisely that reason. And trust me, there are plenty more of them...
Korean girls! :D
Western girls :shock:
Koreans are rude! :evil:
Canadians suck! :twisted:
Fat people! :roll:
And then we return to the top and start all over. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| This thread is going in circles - Im getting dizzy... |
some medicine for nausea
HTH
/troll
The link is actually an intriguing read. |
Youre preaching to the converted mate...
There must be some kind of internet-forum phenomenon, where a thread goes in a full circle (and continues to do so) after so many posts because people refuse to read what was written prior to the two or three posts they just read.
Thats not trolling, its a polite request for people to inject something new into the discussion or leave it. |
harumph
What new thing could possibly be injected into a debate of this nature, though? I tend not to participate in cyclical debate topics for precisely that reason. And trust me, there are plenty more of them...
Korean girls! 
Western girls 
Koreans are rude! 
Canadians suck! 
Fat people! 
And then we return to the top and start all over. |
C'est vrai...
Thats why it pays to have an opinion, you can always polish and reuse it every few months - good as new! |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
The very first paragraph of your first link shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what evolution is.
The problem is, creationists abusing the term "macroevolution" as a strawman in arguments against proponents of the theory of evolution. "Macroevolution" does not exist in the short term, science is aware of this. Cows don't suddenly sprout flippers and become whales. Duh!
"Macroevolution" is simply microevolution given lots (!!) of time.
Since apparently the rest of that boatload of an article bases itself on the assumption that macroevolution doesn't suddenly happen, it's actually in agreement with science and evolutionary theory and debunks precisely nothing. |
Dave's in a nutshell right here... a rabid dog primed to shred any scrap thrown its way. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| Dave's in a nutshell right here... a rabid dog primed to shred any scrap thrown its way. |
When the scrap is a festering pile of nonsense, most certainly! |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| It's like arguing with Steelrails. He just covers his ears and ignores what has been said, then continues rambling on as if his point hadn't already been addressed. Creationists and Steelrails: same, same. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
Zombie science
"Although the classical ideal is that scientific theories are evaluated by a careful teasing-out of their internal logic and external implications, and checking whether these deductions and predictions are in-line-with old and new observations; the fact that so many vague, dumb or incoherent scientific theories are apparently believed by so many scientists for so many years is suggestive that this ideal does not necessarily reflect real world practice. In the real world it looks more like most scientists are quite willing to pursue wrong ideas for so long as they are rewarded with a better chance of achieving more grants, publications and status."
To say "that the theory is phoney, and always was phoney, and this is why it so singularly fails to predict reality is regarded as simplistic, crass, merely a sign of lack of sophistication. And anyway, there are... the reputations of numerous scientists who are now successful and powerful on the back of the phoney theory, and who by now control the peer review process (including allocation of grants, publications and jobs) so there is a powerful disincentive against upsetting the apple cart."
"Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down." "Zombie science is supported because it is useful propaganda. Zombie science is deployed in arenas such as political rhetoric, public administration, management, public relations, marketing and the mass media generally. It persuades, it constructs taboos, it buttresses some kind of rhetorical attempt to shape mass opinion. Indeed, zombie science often comes across in the mass media as being more plausible than real science."
Debunking Evolution: problems between the theory and reality; the false science of evolution
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
http://www.newgeology.us/List.pdf |
You're a fool. To believe that you have to believe that there is not a single, ethical scientist on the planet. That there is a massive conspiracy by scientists to hide 'zombie science' just to get funding. Then you must believe the funds granting bodies are part of this conspiracy. Then you have to believe that scientists (the people who invented the modern world and all its wonders) are not really interested in doing science after all. After spending a decade in university learning how to do science, they are content to get up each morning and do research into a field of study they know to be scientifically wrong. Then write books about that field that they know there is no evidence for. Then you have to believe that creationists, people who think the earth is 5000 years old, have broken the code. And where did they find this code? In a book about angels, demons, gods and talking snakes, of course.
Anyone who denies the FACT of evolution is a fool and shouldn't be anywhere near a classroom. They also have a very jaundiced view of science and scientists, not to mention the character of scientists. "Money. Money. Money. The truth be damned....Give me money." How cynical can you be? And why have no scientists, after retiring and the research funds have dried up, written books exposing the conspiracy? Because there is none. Evolution happened, and every scientist worthy of the name knows it happened. They may say that YHWH, Baal, Zeus or Harry Potter was behind it all. But they do accept the fact that it happened. That your particular cult can't accept the fact of evolution has no bearing on the fact that it happened. |
Synopsis:
Scolio is a person with a militant philosophy regarding a particular topic.
Scolio sees information is posted that is counter to his philosophy.
Scolio admits not reading the information and does not address any points of the the unread information.
Scolio fabricates a false narrative about the information poster that includes insults and pejorative labels.
The scum of the internet forum known as a cyberbully, is a person who fabricates defamatory false narratives.
Scolio is a cyberbully.
Scolio has not evolved past the stage of scum at the bottom of the proverbial primordial soup. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="guavashake"]
| Scorpion wrote: |
Synopsis:
Scolio is a person with a militant philosophy regarding a particular topic.
Nope. I have a militant position against bronze age nonsense being taught as science.
Scolio sees information is posted that is counter to his philosophy.
Error. I see information that is counter to what science tells us is true.
Scolio admits not reading the information and does not address any points of the the unread information.
I also don't read material from the Flat Earth Society or Scientology. Your points have been addressed by scientists and found to be completely without merit.
Scolio fabricates a false narrative about the information poster that includes insults and pejorative labels.
Insults. Really? Look at your comments below. Doesn't your little book say something about hypocrisy?
The scum of the internet forum known as a cyberbully, is a person who fabricates defamatory false narratives.
Tut tut. (Matthew 5:22)
Scolio is a cyberbully.
Is that creationist blather for someone who mocks fools who believe in a 5000 year-old earth? If so, I'm guilty as charged.
Scolio has not evolved past the stage of scum at the bottom of the proverbial primordial soup.
So you do accept the fact of evolution. Awesome. My work is done here.
. |
Anything else?
Last edited by Scorpion on Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Yes there is something else.
Definition of Scolio:
Scolio is Latin for "twisted"
Regarding the proverbial primordial soup,
Definition of proverb:
“A proverb is a short, generally known sentence of the folk which contains traditional views in a metaphorical and memorizable form and which is handed down from generation to generation.”
A proverb is a folk story.
In this case the story is a science fiction story.
| guavashake wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
Zombie science
"Although the classical ideal is that scientific theories are evaluated by a careful teasing-out of their internal logic and external implications, and checking whether these deductions and predictions are in-line-with old and new observations; the fact that so many vague, dumb or incoherent scientific theories are apparently believed by so many scientists for so many years is suggestive that this ideal does not necessarily reflect real world practice. In the real world it looks more like most scientists are quite willing to pursue wrong ideas for so long as they are rewarded with a better chance of achieving more grants, publications and status."
To say "that the theory is phoney, and always was phoney, and this is why it so singularly fails to predict reality is regarded as simplistic, crass, merely a sign of lack of sophistication. And anyway, there are... the reputations of numerous scientists who are now successful and powerful on the back of the phoney theory, and who by now control the peer review process (including allocation of grants, publications and jobs) so there is a powerful disincentive against upsetting the apple cart."
"Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down." "Zombie science is supported because it is useful propaganda. Zombie science is deployed in arenas such as political rhetoric, public administration, management, public relations, marketing and the mass media generally. It persuades, it constructs taboos, it buttresses some kind of rhetorical attempt to shape mass opinion. Indeed, zombie science often comes across in the mass media as being more plausible than real science."
Debunking Evolution: problems between the theory and reality; the false science of evolution
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
http://www.newgeology.us/List.pdf |
You're a fool. To believe that you have to believe that there is not a single, ethical scientist on the planet. That there is a massive conspiracy by scientists to hide 'zombie science' just to get funding. Then you must believe the funds granting bodies are part of this conspiracy. Then you have to believe that scientists (the people who invented the modern world and all its wonders) are not really interested in doing science after all. After spending a decade in university learning how to do science, they are content to get up each morning and do research into a field of study they know to be scientifically wrong. Then write books about that field that they know there is no evidence for. Then you have to believe that creationists, people who think the earth is 5000 years old, have broken the code. And where did they find this code? In a book about angels, demons, gods and talking snakes, of course.
Anyone who denies the FACT of evolution is a fool and shouldn't be anywhere near a classroom. They also have a very jaundiced view of science and scientists, not to mention the character of scientists. "Money. Money. Money. The truth be damned....Give me money." How cynical can you be? And why have no scientists, after retiring and the research funds have dried up, written books exposing the conspiracy? Because there is none. Evolution happened, and every scientist worthy of the name knows it happened. They may say that YHWH, Baal, Zeus or Harry Potter was behind it all. But they do accept the fact that it happened. That your particular cult can't accept the fact of evolution has no bearing on the fact that it happened. |
Synopsis:
Scolio is a person with a militant philosophy regarding a particular topic.
Scolio sees information is posted that is counter to his philosophy.
Scolio admits not reading the information and does not address any points of the the unread information.
Scolio fabricates a false narrative about the information poster that includes insults and pejorative labels.
The scum of the internet forum known as a cyberbully, is a person who fabricates defamatory false narratives.
Scolio is a cyberbully.
Scolio has not evolved past the stage of scum at the bottom of the proverbial primordial soup. |
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