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One in four Americans 'don't know the Earth orbits the Sun'
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zyzyfer wrote:
Humans need to have faith in and believe in something, even if it is science. It is necessary for survival, because if one were to say, "There is nothing, there is no higher purpose to this, I am an insect working my way through metal foliage to reproduce and die and become nothingness," it's all really very bleak and uninspiring.

Or there is another way to look at that...besides the grammar changes...kkk.

There is nothing. There is no higher purpose to this.
I am an insect working my way through metal foliage to reproduce and die and become nothingness. Cool.
I will do whatever the frack I want. I don't have to listen to all the bullshit.
I will suck the marrow from life...and all that.
It's really very inspiring.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cosmic Hum wrote:
Cool.
I will do whatever the frack I want. I don't have to listen to all the bullshit.
I will suck the marrow from life...and all that.


Indeed.
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did Julius go? Why is it that religious folk always end up running away from threads? They are gung-ho at first, and ready for battle with skeptics, but once the absurdity of their position is pointed out over and over again they inevitably run away. It's the same procedure in each and every thread about religion on Daves.

Strange that.
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
Where did Julius go? Why is it that religious folk always end up running away from threads? They are gung-ho at first, and ready for battle with skeptics, but once the absurdity of their position is pointed out over and over again they inevitably run away. It's the same procedure in each and every thread about religion on Daves.

Strange that.


Don't worry, he'll be back and no doubt bragging about how he "destroyed" all the competition this time around in the next thread.

Were you here for the Current Events Forum 400+ page Evolution vs Creationism thread? That was a doozy. They eventually deleted it. I miss Itaewonguy...
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underwaterbob wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Where did Julius go? Why is it that religious folk always end up running away from threads? They are gung-ho at first, and ready for battle with skeptics, but once the absurdity of their position is pointed out over and over again they inevitably run away. It's the same procedure in each and every thread about religion on Daves.

Strange that.


Don't worry, he'll be back and no doubt bragging about how he "destroyed" all the competition this time around in the next thread.

Were you here for the Current Events Forum 400+ page Evolution vs Creationism thread? That was a doozy. They eventually deleted it. I miss Itaewonguy...


I find it most amusing that your user name is 'Underwater Bob'. It's a perfect fit for the topic at hand. Very Happy

Speaking of being under water, it's actually impossible for the "whole earth" to be covered in water as genesis suggests. The reality of rainfall, even if accompanied by water from "the fountains of the deep" could never succeed in covering every surface of the earth. It simply did not happen. It's not just geology 101, its meteorology 101, and climatology 101. Didn't happen. Not nearly enough water.

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/2noah93.html
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I dont think it is impossible (gritting my teeth and waiting for it)...

Firstly, the earth was covered with water at some point, I know this was billions of years ago before any of the super continent, land masses fully emerged but it was the case.

There has been a lot of evidence recently that shows there are underground water sources that far outstrip the amount of water held on any land formation. The most recent discoveries of course being the super river under the amazon which is up to 100 kms wide at some points and the giant lake under Antarctica.

A lot of the worlds water today is stored in ice (around 70 percent of fresh water). If it were all to melt, the sea levels would rise dramatically. I read somewhere that around in the past (around 3mya) the sea levels would have been at around 150-200 feet higher than now.

Then you've got the amount of water stored in industry, peoples bodies, water containers etc. it all adds up.

In short, what Im saying is, there is a lot of water available if you ever wanted to to cause a global catastrophe and had the means to go about doing it (for example omnipotency) . If it were all displaced, it could have easily covered the earth-ish (*)

As you can see, there is basically a lot of evidence around to support creationists opinions. I can truly believe how they could come to those assumptions if it were argued correctly - especially to someone who doesn't have an academic knowledge of meteorology, geology etc.



(*)
The problem is though, you've got things like mountain ranges that are millions of years old that wouldn't have been submerged, unless they appeared less than 4000 ya and trees that are 7,000 years old etc. Thats where selective fact finding comes into play and 'faith'.
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Le Paul, did you read the article? A river under the Amazon "100 kms wide at points" is nothing compared to the vastness of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. It's a drop in the bucket. Besides, as you say, if there had been a global flood there would be plenty of evidence of it. There is none. Zip. Nada. And Genesis says the "whole earth" was covered by water. Including Mt. Everest? It's just silly.

Still, I would be interested in any links you have on the volume of water under the earth.
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My quick and dirty math, assuming the Earth were a sphere, tells me that to cover Mount Everest at a height of 8km, we need 4.1 billion cubic kilometers of water to add 8 kilometers of water to the Earth's radius.

It seems it's estimated there is about 1.3 billion cubic kilometers of water in the oceans. So, we need 4.1/1.3 = 3.2 times as much water as there is in the oceans to (barely) submerge Mount Everest.

There is some evidence for this much water under the Earth's surface, but what mechanism could possibly bring this much water to the surface, and what on Earth (ha ha!) would replace it? How would it get back down there, and what would become of whatever replaced it in the first place? Unless we're suggesting that the Earth has also significantly decreased and increased in size to allow this event to take place...

To suggest a global flood - whether it's even possible or not - happened within the past 5000 years is just ridiculous. Nothing we've observed in nature, nor indeed recorded history - which almost goes that far back - points to anything like an actual global flood having occurred.

Heck, listen to Koreans brag about their "5000 years of history"!
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaguely related: Mars with Earth's Ocean Water Added
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isnt one of their arguments that there is evidence - the grand canyon?. That is where all the water 'drained away'.

And I think by all calculations, this biblical flood took place 4000 y.a. (2000 b.c.e. - the Earth being 6000 years old.), so mount Everest, the Andes etc. sprung up, around the time of the Korean Gojoseon period. Considering Korea is around 77 percent mountainous, Im surprised no-one (or anyone from any other culture for that matter) thought to write an account of the mountains that suddenly started appearing everywhere.

Its a funny old world...
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't there then be 'grand canyons' all over the earth? Why just one? The whole earth was covered in water, how could it all drain through one location?
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
Where did Julius go? Why is it that religious folk always end up running away from threads? They are gung-ho at first, and ready for battle with skeptics, but once the absurdity of their position is pointed out over and over again they inevitably run away. It's the same procedure in each and every thread about religion on Daves.

Strange that.


I'm guessing that he ran away, but he will be back. Inevitably, someone will start a thread on the upcoming movie 'Noah's Ark' after it is released. I think Julius is licking his wounds after the drubbing he received here before running off, has been praying to his deity for guidance, is gathering together his 'scientific evidence' and will be back soon enough. He will receive a further drubbing and eventually run away again, but he will return. Or maybe not....he belongs to a group of people who follow a chap who doesn't really have a stellar record on 'returning'. So we'll have to wait and see. Either way, the creationist loons will be all over the movie, and it will be an excellent opportunity for scientists to put this fable to bed once and for all.

Bring on the movie.

Bring on the science.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
More proof that democracy is a farce. If 25% of Americans (75 million people) don't know that the earth revolves around the sun then they shouldn't get the vote. Period. A certain degree of common knowledge, education and inquisitiveness about the world should be a prerequisite for having a say in the fate of nations.


I agree, but you don't go nearly far enough. I say bring back eugenics. If you believe in Noah's fllood, a young earth, and the biblical creation story you shouldn't just be denied the vote - you should be denied the right to reproduce. If you are that stupid, and your intelligence so feable, then your DNA needs to stop. No reproductive rights for you. The future of nations is important, but the future of humanity is more so.

Think the earth is 5000 years old? No vote. No kids. Think the world is coming to an end in this generation? Fine, but you don't get to have a say on next's year's budget - because it doesn't affect you. Think all those animals made their way to Noah's hut? Fine, but you can't get a teacher's license or work in any education sector. Think a deity who murdered every child, infant and toddler on the planet is 'wonderful' and the epitome of love and goodness? Fine, but you can't come within fifty feet of any child. Think Jesus was both 100% God and 100% man, fine. But you're not allowed to do your own taxes.

And no kids.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
Shouldn't there then be 'grand canyons' all over the earth? Why just one? The whole earth was covered in water, how could it all drain through one location?


Ever been in a bath?

Maybe Christians have and 'biblical sized' plug hole thats big enough to flush down animals (instead of the usual spiders) Laughing
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:


As you can see, there is basically a lot of evidence around to support creationists opinions. I can truly believe how they could come to those assumptions if it were argued correctly - especially to someone who doesn't have an academic knowledge of meteorology, geology etc.



There is no evidence that can be put together to support creationism. Also there is nothing that could justify a critical assessment that Noah placed all the animals of the earth on a boat. A person has to be pretty naïve to believe something like that. Everything that creationists come up with or point to in order to back up their beliefs are scientific outliers. The outliers do not fit into the general pattern seen in evolution because some extra physical process has worked on it. The fact that they do not want to admit that their facts are outliers is because the outliers they use fit into their superficial logic schemes that "disprove" evolution. The bottom line is they believe what the fundamentalist churches tell them about reality and that's that. Creationism is religion.
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