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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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 Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| They are pulling this after their hand was shown in the leaked phone calls. Washington truly has no shame. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of ethnic networks:
Slate columnist Anne Applebaum (the granddaughter of mass murderer extraordinaire Gershon Apfelbaum) is married to Radosław Sikorski, who is Polish foreign Minister and the fellow who was leading the "peace talks" in Ukraine.
Small world. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Putin finally addresses the situation:
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721586
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MOSCOW, March 01, 18:11 /ITAR-TASS/. President Vladimir Putin on Saturday, March 1, sent to the Federation Council, the upper house of parliament, a letter on the use of the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine pending the resolution of the current political crisis in that country.
“In connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots, the personnel of the military contingent of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation deployed in the territory of Ukraine (Autonomous Republic of Crimea) in accordance with an international treaty, and pursuant to Article 102-1(d) of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, I hereby submit to the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation a letter on the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the territory of Ukraine pending normalisation of the public and political situation in that country,” the presidential press service said. |
Will Obama take time from his Dreams of Promise Zones and uplifting young men color to address Russian expansionism? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
Putin finally addresses the situation:
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721586
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MOSCOW, March 01, 18:11 /ITAR-TASS/. President Vladimir Putin on Saturday, March 1, sent to the Federation Council, the upper house of parliament, a letter on the use of the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine pending the resolution of the current political crisis in that country.
“In connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots, the personnel of the military contingent of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation deployed in the territory of Ukraine (Autonomous Republic of Crimea) in accordance with an international treaty, and pursuant to Article 102-1(d) of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, I hereby submit to the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation a letter on the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the territory of Ukraine pending normalisation of the public and political situation in that country,” the presidential press service said. |
[snark omitted] |
The territory of Ukraine!
Lithuania invokes Article 4.
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| Lithuania's FM Linkevicius has said Russia's decision to deploy forces in Ukraine means "Nato, art. 4 becomes valid," referring to article 4 of the Nato treaty. The article says Nato members must meet for consultations if "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened." |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/03/01/CNN-Accuses-Putin-of-Bullying-Obama
ha.
Short of a land war there is nothing NATO can do. Will our overlords risk everything for Crimea and east Ukraine? A nuclear weapons exchange puts an end to everything they've worked for.
The Americans will funnel money to Tartars and some Ukrainian groups who will be easily dealt with. This is the American game. Provide weapons and cash to some band of assholes who then go on to challenge the gov. The gov responds and the yankee media goes bonkers with cries about human rights etc. Then USA sends in bombs to liberate the people from tyranny. Same same same. This strategy doesn't work with Russia.
This is delightful to watch. The culmination of 40 years of American bullshit. Pajama Boy is in charge and facing down a proper adult and the media squeals BULLY. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Well, the Americans have been ignoring international sovereignty norms for awhile. Now, the Russians have adopted the American way. Are there any other nations left which might make a land grab?
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If Russia excludes its own borders from the general international standard of inviolability, it might face some unwanted challenges down the road. If Russia's external frontiers are flexible zones, to be pushed in various ways with appeals to the rights of ethnic brethren and passport holders, then what will happen, down the line, in Russia's eastern Siberia? There, Russia holds major natural resources along its border with China, the world's longest. Some 6 million Russian citizens in eastern Siberia face 90 million Chinese in China's bordering provinces.
Beijing pays attention to Ukraine because it has a major stake in Ukrainian agricultural territories. It will likely note the developing Russian doctrine on the flexibility of Russia's external borders. China also has a stake in eastern Siberia. It needs fresh water, hydrocarbons, mineral resources such as copper and zinc, and fertile soil for its farmers. The Chinese economic relationship with eastern Siberia is a colonial one: China buys raw materials and sells finished goods. Beijing actually invests more in eastern Siberia than does Moscow. No one knows the exact number of Chinese citizens in eastern Siberia -- in part because the last Russian census declined to count them -- but it certainly dwarfs the number of Russians in Crimea, and is expected by Russian analysts to increase significantly with time.
It seems rather risky for Russia to develop, on its own border, a challenge to the basic premise of territorial sovereignty. Beijing and Moscow currently enjoy good relations, and Chinese leaders are too sophisticated to consider open threats to eastern Siberia. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: |
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^ By Timothy Snyder. ^
In other words, the meddlesome USA will try to fuel separatism in Russia.
How'd that work out for Chechnya? Column after column of Russian tanks as far as the eye could see. South Ossetia? Same. Russia uses unreasonable levels of violence to maintain territorial integrity.
The Russians have completely pacified the unpacifiable Chechens. So much so that:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kadyrov-chechens-ready-to-keep-peace-in-crimea-337720.html
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Head of Russia's internal republic of Chechnya Ramzan Kadyrov is ready to protect the rights of the Russian-speaking people in Crimea that sees disturbances over the change in authorities.
"Ukraine and Russia are fraternal peoples. I have many Ukrainian friends, and like them all and regret what has recently been happening there The majority of people living today in Crimea are Russians, Cossacks. We are always with them and if necessary are ready to come to the rescue. We will stand up for Russians, Cossacks and Chechens no matter where they live," Kadyrov told journalists on Wednesday. |
The Chechen's will keep the Tartars in line.
This is a proper empire. The minority groups are kept in line in service of the majoritarian state. The United States is exactly the inverse. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Let's just hope this land grab is bloodless.
Ukraine may be losing an autonomous region, but in losing it, Ukrainians may well solidify their national identity.
Last edited by Kuros on Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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Old Painless
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Worst case scenario for Putin:
He starts military operations in eastern Ukraine under the pretext that he has to protect all those "Russian citizens" living there (Russia has been doling out Russian passports for several years to any Ukrainian loyal to Russia).
US and other countries get angry, he "backs down", John Kerry and Obama look like they brokered a "peace deal", and Putin keeps 1/3 of the Ukraine and his gas pipelines are completely protected under a new treaty.
Also, Eastern Ukraine is scared shitless again and essentially falls into line for Russia economically.
US goes back to watching Duck Dynasty; EU watches soccer.
That's a win-win for everyone except the EU and the Ukraine
Best case scenario for Putin:
He starts military operations in eastern Ukraine under the pretext that he has to protect all those "Russian citizens" living there.
US and other countries get angry, he tells them to eat a dick and that he's simply "protecting" the Ukraine.
He runs a hardcore TV propaganda effort after taking over the Ukraine TV channels and holds new elections with Russian troops and tanks monitoring the polling stations.
His guy wins (again), he can cite a legitimate, democratically elected government in the Ukraine, and he controls the entire regime to best suit his interests Soviet style.
US goes back to watching Duck Dynasty; EU watches soccer.
http://tpc.pc2.netdna-cdn.com/images/Obama_Putin_Differences.jpg |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Painless wrote: |
| under the pretext that he has to protect all those "Russian citizens" living there (Russia has been doling out Russian passports for several years to any Ukrainian loyal to Russia). |
To be fair, they are Russian.
They're ethnic Russians, the territory was part of Russia until 1954, and part of the USSR until 1991.
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it wasn’t handed to Ukraine. The administrative boundaries were changed so that Crimea became a part of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. At the time, of course, there was no sense in which this was handing off to any other form of sovereignty or any other kind of sovereign entity. It was an internal administrative change inside the Soviet Union.
http://hnn.us/article/154867#sthash.KoJGQ34t.dpuf |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
I'll comfortably sit in the pro-Russia camp.
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Why stop there? Quit the West altogether and move to Russia. Let's see how well you do living there. Let's see if they accept you with open arms. You could teach ESL there. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
[
To be fair, they are Russian.
They're ethnic Russians, the territory was part of Russia until 1954, and part of the USSR until 1991.
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Chaparrastique is right. The Russians aren't exactly Nazi's looking for breathing space. The US meddled with the Soviets in Afghanistan, a serious mistake, and has meddled elsewhere. The Russians broke international law so basically take economic and diplomatic action, which the US is good at, and that's that. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
I'll comfortably sit in the pro-Russia camp.
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Why stop there? Quit the West altogether and move to Russia. Let's see how well you do living there. Let's see if they accept you with open arms. You could teach ESL there. |
A great idea. I have a 3 year Rus visa in hand. Not esl though.
The last time I was told to 'go to xyz' (SEE HOW THEY'LL TREAT YOU) was during the Iraq war protests. In San Francisco. Such a strange country.
http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/850279/
^ 675,000 Ukrainians have entered Russia in the last 2 months. |
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