Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ukraine and the Crimean War
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 34, 35, 36 ... 41, 42, 43  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Ukrainian Embassy in the USA:

http://usa.mfa.gov.ua/en/press-center/news/24185-mi-uvichnimo-pamjaty-gerojiv-ochistivshi-nashu-zemlyu-vid-nechistiarsenij-jacenyuk-u-spivchutti-ridnim-i-blizykim-zagiblih-vojiniv-u-lugansyku
Quote:

“We bow our heads to the heroes who lost their lives for the sake of their country, to prevent the war from coming into the house of each of us”, - said the Prime-Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk while expressing condolences to the families and friends of those military men killed last night near Luhansk.

“They lost their lives because they defended men and women, children and the elderly who found themselves in a situation facing a threat to be killed by invaders and sponsored by them subhumans. First, we will commemorate the heroes by wiping out those who killed them and then by cleaning our land from the evil”, - he said.


Holy cow that is strong language. You'd think that Yatsenyuk might be a bit weary of using that rhetoric in Europe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ukrainian Secretary of Defense discusses rounding up and deporting ethnic Russians "linked to" terrorism and/or separatism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIohJfFrYSk

The Secretary of Defense and the Prime Minister of Ukraine are using the language of ethnic cleansing and genocide when discussing ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Again, to recap, this is Team America, along with the Sunni insane asylum in Syria, the Saudi black hole of jihadism, and the rest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You think that's strong rhetoric?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27845313

In a statement it said “terrorists” had “cynically and treacherously” fired on the aircraft.

'Cynically and treacherously' - the use of treacherously' is particularly interesting. Did they have an agreement with the 'terrorists' for safe passage of war planes? It's like they are copying the North/South Korean rhetoric - which always amused me.


While in Russia, there was strong rhetoric about neo-nazism in Ukraine (something that also exists in Russia), in Ukraine there is a strong talk of WW3, terrorists, treachery and evil. It's all propaganda designed to fuel more hatred -

I should say, these days the propaganda on the Ukrainian side is by far stronger than it is in Russia. With Putin no longer willing to send troops to 'protect ethnic Russians' (his excuse for taking over Crimea - alas, it does not extend to other regions, no matter how many civilians die), the neo-nazi rhetoric is slowly dying out. In Ukraine, the 'evil, vile terrorists and Russians' rhetoric is gaining momentum with each day.

With all this hate and propaganda talk, it's not surprising that there was a major protest aimed at the Russian Embassy in Kiev . Here is the story on that and what a Ukrainian minister publicly said about Russia - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/ukraine-minister-deshchytsia-abusive-putin-russia

The implication here is such that the anti ethnic-Russians and Russia propaganda is now fueled not just by the media, but also by the Ukrainian government.

I wonder if this is all done as a way of preparing the Ukrainian citizens to go to war with Russia? After all, as Poroshenko has recently said that Crimea will soon once again be a part of Ukraine, so one has to ponder just when he'll send his army to start something that will basically lead to a re-run of the Russia-Georgia war. And we all know how that turned out.

Is Poroshenko dumb enough to think that if he sends his military to Crimea and gets Russia to respond in force (not just by repelling the initial attack, but also taking over the Donbas region) that NATO will help him in any way? I think he may well be that deluded.

The good thing is, once this happens, the civil war in Ukraine will officially be over - Donbas will either become an autonomous region or be annexed by Russia, while Ukraine will fall under official protection of USA - but all in all, there will be peace.


Last edited by maximmm on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://rt.com/news/166020-ukraine-minister-effing-putin/

Quote:
In an incident that may be a first in diplomatic history, Kiev’s top diplomat publicly ‘effed’ the head of another state. Foreign Minister Andrey Deshchitsa chanted “Putin’s a f**ker” with a cheering crowd that earlier vandalized the Russian embassy.


Quote:
Is Poroshenko dumb enough to think that if he sends his military to Crimea and gets Russia to respond in force (not just by repelling the initial attack, but also taking over the Donbas region) that NATO will help him in any way? I think he may indeed be that ignorant.


Poroshenko is an American agent (see below, wikileaks as source) and the American goal is Ukraine in NATO. USG like to use wars as a means to force change.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ukraine-President-Once-Age-by-Michael-Collins-Agents_Petro-Poroshenko_Russia_State-Department-140609-372.html

^ HRC was pushing Ukrainian admission into NATO (from wikileaks).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jen isn't worried about the comments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY2ghdAUpf4&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Jen isn't worried about the comments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY2ghdAUpf4&feature=youtu.be


That's funny stuff right there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
Titus wrote:
Jen isn't worried about the comments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY2ghdAUpf4&feature=youtu.be


That's funny stuff right there.


She is the most perfect person to spread USG regime BS in East Europe/Russia. A no-nothing progressive airhead with no self awareness and a persecution complex. The Russians adore her and have made her a minor celebrity (in the sense Pewee Herman is a celebrity).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/06/reports-ukraine-order-unilateral-truce-201461881939816332.html

Some great news! Poroshenko is declaring truce! Oh, he's done that a few times before, but this time it's for real!

PS. If his previous truce declarations are any indication, Ukrainian military operations are about to increase and expand in scope by a major margin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/europe/2014/06/poroshenko-wants-ukraine-russia-border-fence-20146186511130243.html

'Ukraine's president has proposed building a fence along the Russian border, as border guards come under nightly attacks with civilians often caught in the middle.'

Ingenious!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/06/reports-ukraine-order-unilateral-truce-201461881939816332.html

Some great news! Poroshenko is declaring truce! Oh, he's done that a few times before, but this time it's for real!

PS. If his previous truce declarations are any indication, Ukrainian military operations are about to increase and expand in scope by a major margin.


He's probably a little nervous about the big Russian land force that is getting ready to have some fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/if-putin-isnt-punished-europe-risks-a-wider-war/article19736987/

If Putin isn’t punished, Europe risks a wider war

Quote:
The tragic downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 on July 17 by Russian-armed troops provides another occasion for the West to use its superior power to bring Russia’s war in Ukraine to an end. This assertion may sound surprising but nobody denies that the West, if it acts in unison, possesses more than enough power to force Russia to stop its war in Ukraine, withdraw its soldiers who shot down this plane, and move out all of its weapons. Yet the West has only employed a fraction of its power to date, driven as it is by commercial considerations and misplaced geopolitical fear of Russia’s reaction. It is precisely this disunity that has allowed Vladimir Putin to keep raising the ante in Ukraine because it lets him indulge his belief that he can outlast any Western pressure. After all, major energy firms have signed big deals with Rusisa while this fighting was taking place, confirming his belief in the West’s essential decadence and greed.


This fking guy says that not antagonizing the thousand nuclear warhead holding Russians over an event that has not been fully investigated is a sign of the "West’s essential decadence and greed."

But that is nothing compared to my old friend Benard Levy, fresh from war-mongering in Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/opinion/putins-crime-europes-cowardice.html
Quote:

TANGIER, Morocco — IN eastern Ukraine, Vladimir V. Putin has been playing with fire.

He has mobilized the worst elements to be found in the region.

He has taken thugs, thieves, rapists, ex-cons and vandals and turned them into a paramilitary force.

He has permitted ad hoc commanders of separatist groups to kill or chase off intellectuals, journalists and other moral authorities in the cities of Donetsk and Lugansk.

He has watched as a vodka-soaked rabble army destroys or takes over public buildings, hospitals, schools and municipal offices of the country it is pretending to liberate.

He has allowed a veritable gang war to take hold — without caring that he is losing control of the forces that he has unleashed, with rival bands pitted against one another and carving out fiefs amid the growing anarchy.


David Cameron, the British prime minister, has argued for tougher sanctions against Russia.

Most troubling of all: To this underworld without structure or discipline, to these undisciplined louts who know only the law of the jungle, to this new brand of fighting force that has only the dimmest idea of war and no idea, God knows, of the laws of war — to this motley collection Mr. Putin, the Russian president, gave a terrifying arsenal with which the amateur soldiers were unfamiliar and with which they have been playing, like kids with fireworks.

We know that Russia supplied vast quantities of heavy weaponry to the separatists and trained them to use the SA-11 surface-to-air missile system — the kind believed to have been used to bring down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

One can envision the victorious gang celebrating with its trophy, playing with it as if it were a toy — one that can reach altitudes of over 70,000 feet.

One can similarly imagine Russian military officers — not so secretly assigned by the Kremlin to watch over the missiles and their use by amateur artillery crews targeting Ukrainian military aircraft — being overtaken by events and seized with panic.

One can even imagine their consternation when Igor Strelkov, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Republic of Donetsk, claimed responsibility for shooting down a Ukrainian military plane — which turned out to be Flight 17.

We know what happened.

Whatever the outcome of the eventual investigation — an investigation made well nigh impossible by these dogs of war who follow no creed and no law, who, as they horrified the world by leaving the bodies of their victims abandoned in fields or heaped in poorly refrigerated train cars, as they reveled in their 15 minutes of fame by deploring before the news cameras of the world that the 298 lost souls had had the bad taste to “land” on people’s houses or in reservoirs used for drinking water, were also purloining the plane’s black boxes, organizing the export to Russia of possibly compromising debris, and casually stripping the bodies of objects of value — whatever the outcome of the investigation into all of this, an undeniable result was carnage, a war crime, an attack on Ukraine, the Netherlands and Malaysia all at once.

For all of these reasons, it was hard not to side with Ukraine’s president, Petro O. Poroshenko — who, it is worth noting, has shown in the terrible days since the crash the qualities of composure, dignity and authority that he exhibited during his campaign for office — when he asked the international community to classify as terrorist organizations the “people’s republics” of Donetsk and Lugansk.

It is also hard not to agree with Mr. Poroshenko when, several hours after the tragedy, speaking unemotionally and with no trace of hate, he reminded France’s president, François Hollande, that Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi had been blacklisted by the world for his suspected involvement in a similar attack on a commercial airliner, Pan Am Flight 103, over Lockerbie, Scotland, in December 1988.

Faced with this new Lockerbie, will we in the West do no more than beg Mr. Putin to provide “free and complete” access to the crash site and offer “full cooperation” in the recovery of remains?

Have we not a moral obligation to draw logical conclusions about a crime for which, because of his incendiary and irresponsible policies, deeply unworthy of the president of a great power, Mr. Putin is, in the end, wholly responsible?

Under the circumstances — with Mr. Putin having not yet agreed to back off in Ukraine, much less in Crimea — how can France morally justify its plan to deliver to Russia two Mistral-class warships, now being fitted out in the western port of St.-Nazaire? Do we want them to become the crown jewels of a Russian fleet off Sebastopol and, perhaps, Odessa?

To see the European Union acting so pusillanimously is very discouraging. France wants to hold on to its arms contracts for the jobs they are supposed to save in its naval shipyards. Germany, a hub of operations for the Russian energy giant Gazprom, is petrified of losing its own strategic position. Britain, for its part, despite recent statements by Prime Minister David Cameron, may still not be ready to forgo the colossal flows of Russian oligarchs’ ill-gotten cash upon which the City, London’s financial district, has come to rely.

In European parlance, this is called the spirit of Munich — appeasement. And it is a disgrace.


Basically zero assertions above are demonstrably true. Note the language of moral duty. These pricks always cover their aggression in the "moral duty" of European/American nations to destroy some enemy. Framing the airline that was shot down with Lockerbie after Gaddafi was sodomized and killed is particularly disgusting. Putin will read that and he will see the reference and the implications.

What would a war-mongering article by a guy named Levy be without a reference to Munich. One could write an algo that would pump out the same crap every time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Neo-Cons/Tea Baggers have been really sending out the message lately that Obama isn't aggressive enough on the world stage. There isn't a conflict that McCain doesn't want part of. While I don't think they would be stupid enough to take on Russia the US would definitely be fighting Assad in Syria, ISIS in Iraq, and bombing the bejesus out of Iran.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Levy is a liberal. Not neo-con or Tea Party. Quite a few liberals in the Obama admin have been hawks (S. Power, etc). This is an establishment problem and not a right v left problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chaparrastique



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
Putin no longer willing to send troops to 'protect ethnic Russians' (his excuse for taking over Crimea - alas, it does not extend to other regions, no matter how many civilians die.


Putin wants a buffer zone.

He also wants to be able to influence a future Ukraine. Which he can only do by keeping a sizeable Russian population there.

The west (and kiev) expected him to invade- a simple annexation. When he didn't, he landed them with a far bigger and more long-lasting problem.

Kiev made a big mistake by making war on the separatists. By doing so they've ensured that the east can never be a future part of Ukraine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more news I read, the more I come to a conclusion that we've reached cold war status - not in terms of nuclear proliferation but rather the geopolitical divide which risks yet another world war.

Then again, it's the world media that's really at cold war status - politicians have not reached that point -yet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 34, 35, 36 ... 41, 42, 43  Next
Page 35 of 43

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International