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Health At Every Size
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ghostrider



Joined: 27 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Health At Every Size Reply with quote

http://www.lindabacon.org/haesbook/

Somethings I remember from reading this book-

* Contrary to popular belief, being fat is not unhealthy. In fact, people with a BMI of 25-30 live the longest. So overweight people live the longest.

* Dieting only works for a tiny percentage of the population. Most people regain the weight they lose. Long term dieting causes hormonal changes in your body which increase appetite and lower metabolism. Americans spend billions of dollars on diets every year and aren't getting skinnier.

* A fat active person is far more likely to be healthy than a skinny couch potato.

* The civil rights group National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) fights against size discrimination.

So eat what you want to eat. Enjoy your food. Enjoy your life. Stop obsessing about your weight. If you're fat it's not going to kill you. Don't diet. Why be miserable with hunger if you're just going to end up regaining the weight eventually? Learn to accept yourself the way you are. Having flat abs is not everything.
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qualifier for "every" required. There are ends to the weight spectrum that are unhealthy regardless. From the Ally McBeals horking up their latest meal in the bathroom to the blob shaped human riding their Rascal Scooter through the junk food aisle at Walmart.

Also, BMI is bullshit. Weightlifters and body builders are drastically overweight by its measure. But then they tend to die young from heart problems anyway. so maybe they are "overweight", but I don't think anyone would argue that they're unhealthy.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
* Contrary to popular belief, being fat is not unhealthy. In fact, people with a BMI of 25-30 live the longest. So overweight people live the longest.


The paradox of BMI and life expectancy

Quote:
Although the medical cost to the community rises as more and more people become obese, there is little adverse association between being overweight and life expectancy, new research has confirmed.

The increasing rates of obesity and associated disability and illness mean greater financial costs for the community. This expenditure is partly why obesity may have little effect on life expectancy in the aged.

The Monash University-led collaborative study of over 110,000 people examined the effect of BMI (Body Mass Index, regarded as a measure of obesity) on life expectancy and the repercussions for health-care systems. The 12-year study included men and women across all age groups.

The results of the research were recently published in the Asia Pacific Journal of Clinical Nutrition. The study also included researchers from the National Health Research Institutes, Taiwan and the National Defense Medical Centre, Taiwan.

Co-author, Emeritus Professor Mark Wahlqvist from Monash University’s Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine and the Monash Asia Institute, said the study drew attention to the growing need to recognise paradoxes with weight disorders in health care systems, both clinical and public health.

“We found that especially in the elderly, medical expenditure continues to rise with increasing BMI, but there was little relationship with how long a person lived,” Professor Wahlqvist said.

One reason for this greater expenditure is that, with age, excess weight is increasingly accompanied by loss of muscle (sarcopenia) and bone (osteopenia or osteoporosis), with their own health consequences.

“The study showed that to maintain a favourable life expectancy for those who fall outside the desirable BMI range, more money is being spent,” Professor Wahlqvist said.


In short, it seems as if the reason being overweight doesn't result in earlier mortality is because society is dumping more money on you to keep you alive. Assuming this article is correct, the attitude of, "I won't die any sooner so I can be as fat as I like," seems to exemplify a non-trivial argument against social healthcare schemes, and I say that as a proponent of social healthcare schemes.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat is ugly. Saying heavy people live longer does not detract from that fact. Nobody sits around Itaewon in the summer checking out fat people. Appearance isn't everything, of course, but it's not nothing either. And ever had to sit beside an obese person on a twelve hour flight? Not fun.
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Health At Every Size Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
http://www.lindabacon.org/haesbook/

Somethings I remember from reading this book-

* Contrary to popular belief, being fat is not unhealthy. In fact, people with a BMI of 25-30 live the longest. So overweight people live the longest.

i'd love to see some real scientific data to support this because as it stands now, there is a mountain of scientific data to refute this claim.



ghostrider wrote:

* Dieting only works for a tiny percentage of the population. Most people regain the weight they lose. Long term dieting causes hormonal changes in your body which increase appetite and lower metabolism. Americans spend billions of dollars on diets every year and aren't getting skinnier.

yes you're right. because a large majority of the population doesn't realize that dieting is stupid. we should all be eating healthy balanced meals as a norm and the concept of a "diet" is as stupid as they are. plus the large majority of the population has little motivation and drive. to top it off, a large majority of the population wouldn't know how to properly "diet" if their lives depended on it (and ironically enough, it does).



ghostrider wrote:

* A fat active person is far more likely to be healthy than a skinny couch potato.

a fat active person is also far more likely to be healthy than any kind of couch potato. what kind of retarded point is this? doesn't change the fact that a healthy skinny active person will be far more likely to be healthy than a fat active person.



ghostrider wrote:
* The civil rights group National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) fights against size discrimination.

good for them? there are also people who fight to bring back the mcrib regularly.



ghostrider wrote:

So eat what you want to eat. Enjoy your food. Enjoy your life. Stop obsessing about your weight. If you're fat it's not going to kill you. Don't diet. Why be miserable with hunger if you're just going to end up regaining the weight eventually? Learn to accept yourself the way you are. Having flat abs is not everything.

no, people should not listen to this. do not accept things as they are, always strive to better yourself, whether it be your body or your mind. apathy kills and it shows with people who follow this kind of thinking. if you are fat, it WILL kill you. maybe not instantly but it will shorten your life span. if you can't handle being a little hungry for a while while your body adjusts from vacuuming down three big macs in one sitting then you need to seriously sit down and contemplate your life and put on your big boy pants. read the science on it and don't fall into the trap of thinking that being obese is okay.
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wanderkind



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Health At Every Size Reply with quote

Yeah, Ghostrider, I don't mean to dogpile, but there's a lot going on with your post that warrants addressing.

ghostrider wrote:

* Contrary to popular belief, being fat is not unhealthy. In fact, people with a BMI of 25-30 live the longest. So overweight people live the longest.

1. As pointed out, BMI isn't the best measure of fitness / 'healthy' weight.

2. But for the sake of argument let's assume it is, and that the BMI 25-30 live longest stat is true.
(I have no idea if it is or not, and I'd be really curious how that falls across gender lines)
Check out the BMI scale. The 'Overweight' bracket is the narrowest band (spanning only 5 points) on the scale. There's a lot of room to fall in 'Obese', i.e. be fat and unhealthy.

3. Your use of the word overweight might be misleading. In the vernacular, since the word 'obese' is often considered impolite, 'overweight' is often used to describe anyone who falls above 'normal weight'. If someone reading doesn't realize that 'Overweight' is the BMI designation specifically for the 25-30 range, but not above, they could misconstrue what you're saying.

4. It's also worthwhile to point out that there is a distinction between different kinds of body fat, in regards to being healthy or unhealthy. Subcutaneous fat, evenly distributed under the skin around your body, is healthy to have. Having too little is actually unhealthy. Visceral fat, i.e. 'gut fat', can be thought of as the bad fat (see abdominal obesity).
To oversimplify, if your fat is pretty even around your body, you're doing alright. If you have a significant gut, you should consider taking steps to improve that if you or others are invested in your health.

ghostrider wrote:

* Dieting only works for a tiny percentage of the population. Most people regain the weight they lose.
(I'm skeptical of these two sentences. The population of those who diet? Most people who carefully adhere to a soundly devised regimen in line with current thinking in nutrition science?)
Long term dieting causes hormonal changes in your body which increase appetite and lower metabolism. (I'm pretty sure things aren't this cut and dry.)

1. The word 'dieting' can encompass a wide range of informed and uninformed, sound and unsound approaches to altering one's eating habits.

2. The book is very much still open on appetite-related hormones, and definitive statements by those in the field (or any research field really) are usually avoided. With the 'obesity' epidemic, resources are being poured on, but as with most things in life, they're still not clearly understood. Leptin and Ghrelin are prominent factors in appetite and satiety, about which you can read a decent primer here.
(Precision Nutrition does a good job of synthesizing relatively dry content into accessible reads, and from what I can tell it's run by people who know their stuff. If you poke around there's a lot of good stuff on there.)

ghostrider wrote:

So eat what you want to eat. Enjoy your food. (By all means, but employ moderation.) Enjoy your life. Stop obsessing about your weight. (Agreed. Obsession is rarely healthy.)
If you're fat it's not going to kill you. (On the contrary. There are well known, well established circumstances in which it could.)


You don't have to be a stick, or even in the normal BMI range to be healthy. But it's irresponsible to run with something like that and say 'being fat is healthy, so go bananas!'. To truly be able to eat whatever you want whenever you want with no adverse effects, you need to be in phenomenal shape, or be gifted with an absurd metabolism. But barring exceptional personal physiological circumstances, there's no reason you can't eat what you want, when you want, if you exercise moderation.

I don't know anything about your personal situation, but to post about something like this out of the blue, were you or perhaps a significant other feeling the sting of some co-workers'/friends' (Korean?) pointed comments about weight?

You can be fat and still healthy, but it involves, as you said yourself, being active. If someone is struggling to find a way to do this, I recommend swimming (if you don't know, learn!). It's probably the lowest impact and most comfortable way to improve cardiovascular fitness. And while it does have the disadvantage of involving swimsuits, if you go to a lane swim, usually after a couple minutes everyone will be too busy staring at the bottom of the pool to bother with you.
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ghostrider



Joined: 27 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Campos argues that fat people have become the new Jews, blacks, and homosexuals in society. Thin actors wearing fat suits has become the new blackface.

"As many a vulgar social psychologist has (correctly) observed, societies need pariahs. In most cultures, some class of people is more or less required to play the role of those who make everybody else feel superior by comparison."

Lots of evidence contradicts the myth that it's unhealthy to be overweight.

"Groundbreaking work on fitness and weight has been done by [epidemiologist Steven] Blair and colleagues at the Cooper Institute. They have shown that the advantages of being fit are striking and that people can be fit even if they are fat … and thus have lowered risk of disease. A remarkable finding is that heavy people who are fit have lower risk than thin people who are unfit."
-Dr. Kelly Brownell, Director of the Yale Center for Eating and Weight Disorders, 2003

"Consistently, physical inactivity was a better predictor of all-cause mortality than being overweight or obese."
-Annals of Epidemiology, 2002

"Unfit, lean men had twice the risk of all-cause mortality as did fit, lean men and also had higher risk of all-cause mortality when compared with fit, obese men. The all-cause mortality rate of fit, obese men was not significantly different from that of fit, lean men … In summary, we found that obesity did not appear to increase mortality risk in fit men. For long-term health benefits we should focus on improving fitness by increasing physical activity rather than relying only on diet for weight control."
-American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999
http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
Paul Campos argues that fat people have become the new Jews, blacks, and homosexuals in society. Thin actors wearing fat suits has become the new blackface.


Sounds like something a fat person would say.
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
Paul Campos argues that fat people have become the new Jews, blacks, and homosexuals in society. Thin actors wearing fat suits has become the new blackface.

"As many a vulgar social psychologist has (correctly) observed, societies need pariahs. In most cultures, some class of people is more or less required to play the role of those who make everybody else feel superior by comparison."

Lots of evidence contradicts the myth that it's unhealthy to be overweight.

"Groundbreaking work on fitness and weight has been done by [epidemiologist Steven] Blair and colleagues at the Cooper Institute. They have shown that the advantages of being fit are striking and that people can be fit even if they are fat … and thus have lowered risk of disease. A remarkable finding is that heavy people who are fit have lower risk than thin people who are unfit."
-Dr. Kelly Brownell, Director of the Yale Center for Eating and Weight Disorders, 2003

"Consistently, physical inactivity was a better predictor of all-cause mortality than being overweight or obese."
-Annals of Epidemiology, 2002

"Unfit, lean men had twice the risk of all-cause mortality as did fit, lean men and also had higher risk of all-cause mortality when compared with fit, obese men. The all-cause mortality rate of fit, obese men was not significantly different from that of fit, lean men … In summary, we found that obesity did not appear to increase mortality risk in fit men. For long-term health benefits we should focus on improving fitness by increasing physical activity rather than relying only on diet for weight control."
-American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999
http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm


you should stop posting. you are making fat people look ignorant as well, something they don't need.
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tatertot



Joined: 21 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
Paul Campos argues that fat people have become the new Jews, blacks, and homosexuals in society. Thin actors wearing fat suits has become the new blackface.

"As many a vulgar social psychologist has (correctly) observed, societies need pariahs. In most cultures, some class of people is more or less required to play the role of those who make everybody else feel superior by comparison."

Lots of evidence contradicts the myth that it's unhealthy to be overweight.

"Groundbreaking work on fitness and weight has been done by [epidemiologist Steven] Blair and colleagues at the Cooper Institute. They have shown that the advantages of being fit are striking and that people can be fit even if they are fat … and thus have lowered risk of disease. A remarkable finding is that heavy people who are fit have lower risk than thin people who are unfit."
-Dr. Kelly Brownell, Director of the Yale Center for Eating and Weight Disorders, 2003

"Consistently, physical inactivity was a better predictor of all-cause mortality than being overweight or obese."
-Annals of Epidemiology, 2002

"Unfit, lean men had twice the risk of all-cause mortality as did fit, lean men and also had higher risk of all-cause mortality when compared with fit, obese men. The all-cause mortality rate of fit, obese men was not significantly different from that of fit, lean men … In summary, we found that obesity did not appear to increase mortality risk in fit men. For long-term health benefits we should focus on improving fitness by increasing physical activity rather than relying only on diet for weight control."
-American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999
http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm

There's a lot of "well, duh!" in your post. In all cases, fit people were found to be healthier than unfit people. Of course a fit fat person would be healthier than an unfit thin person. The keyword is fit.

But really, while it is possible to be fit and fat at the same time, there is a correlation between unfit and fat. The reason is that people are fat because they consume calories in excess of their bodily requirements. If you are a fat person that exercises a lot, then you can still be healthy. It is hard to be fit and fat, though. It takes a lot of eating to remain fat while living an active lifestyle.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your heart has to be relatively strong to the size of your body, and your lung capacity able to oxygenate - thats basically what fitness is (theres more than that, im just simplifying for the sake of argument).

The biggest problem in terms of weight is, when you're straining your heart too much or other body parts are not able to cope with the tasks being given to them (for example walking up stairs puts a strain on you).
Even a very fit person can 'over do it'.

So yes, its possible to be fit and fat but it has to be relative to the person and their lifestyle.
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rainman3277



Joined: 13 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Health At Every Size Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
http://www.lindabacon.org/haesbook/

Somethings I remember from reading this book-

* Contrary to popular belief, being fat is not unhealthy. In fact, people with a BMI of 25-30 live the longest. So overweight people live the longest.

* Dieting only works for a tiny percentage of the population. Most people regain the weight they lose. Long term dieting causes hormonal changes in your body which increase appetite and lower metabolism. Americans spend billions of dollars on diets every year and aren't getting skinnier.

* A fat active person is far more likely to be healthy than a skinny couch potato.

* The civil rights group National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) fights against size discrimination.

So eat what you want to eat. Enjoy your food. Enjoy your life. Stop obsessing about your weight. If you're fat it's not going to kill you. Don't diet. Why be miserable with hunger if you're just going to end up regaining the weight eventually? Learn to accept yourself the way you are. Having flat abs is not everything.


You think the majority of fat-obese Americans got that way because they are active and eating healthy fats, rather than the ones that made heart disease the #1 killer? I guess its safe to say ghostrider is not a lean individual.
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wanderkind



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An Inconvenient Truth producer's take on food/sugar/obesity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71j8TPwkTQE
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wanderkind wrote:
An Inconvenient Truth producer's take on food/sugar/obesity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71j8TPwkTQE


^

Love this.
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SeoulNate



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

entire study summarized in one sentence already known by all:

BMI is a horrendous measure of health

*slow clap*
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