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How have you changed since leaving home?
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: How have you changed since leaving home? Reply with quote

I haven't been able to find any specific studies about how it effects people leaving their home country and living abroad - either short term or long term (in the majority of our cases - to teach ESL). However, I think its reasonable to argue, that after an extended period abroad, the situation its self isolates us to a certain degree, either from our links back home or building long term relationships where we are presently. The exception often being an intimate relationship with a partner - leading to making a family.

People therefore have to make more decisions that benefit only themselves and may find that become 'shrewder' in negotiating etc.

There is also often less security in our careers or homes (This is often compensated for by saving money and having a 'plan B').

When we return home, it may be difficult to restart our relationships etc. with people from where we left off, thus making people feel more isolated.

People also become more cynical of others -especially foreigners and may look for similarities/common ground with people from their own countries more.

Anyway, I think considering the isolation, it would be natural to become more selfish in this kind of situation.

There are also a lot of positve traits that people must feel theyve developed? Myself for example, I have become better at judging certain situations and more resourceful.

So, my questions are; 'Do you think you have become more selfish since leaving home, and if not, why?'.
And 'How has it changed you as a person living away from your home country?'

(Disclaimer - not a troll post - nor specific to Korea).


Last edited by le-paul on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Jongno2bucheon



Joined: 11 Mar 2014

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

being in korea where people are more open and direct about hidden emotions and thoughts we have in the west I can say that I am more in touch and aware of my subconscious selfishness than before.

But my overall selfishness is the same. just my awareness and articulation of it is better
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joelove



Joined: 12 May 2011

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does this question mean, "Is being selfish normal?"

I don't try to be philosophical or anything but the question makes almost no sense to me. There are two other questions involved. What do you mean by selfish? And what do you mean by normal? Yes, it's time to punch me in the face.

Is selfish different from self-centered? And do you know anyone who is not self-centered? Think about this a little. I'm not pretending to have more or less understanding on the matter than anyone else. That's silly. What do we mean by selfishness? I think that's a fair question. It doesn't take much awareness to see that selfishness or "self-centeredness" is common to all people, because there is very little love in us. What little compassion we have comes and goes. Most of us, most of the time, are out for ourselves, and so selfishness is the dominant force in our lives. You and I may speak of being nice or polite or generous or whatever, but deep down we are mostly concerned with ourselves, with the "me" and the gratification of maintaining some silly image. This is all very basic. It takes no thought, and is a bunch of empty words.

By normal I guess you mean common. Of course being selfish is normal or common. Is the normal person sane or psychologically healthy? I doubt it. Most people are neurotic and totally interested in themselves, in their own petty little affairs and being or becoming somebody special, which is a grand trick we've all been taught to believe. To be normal is to be fretful, anxious, self-absorbed, envious, jealous, and to conform to all the rest of the illness given to us.

So yeah, I guess being selfish is normal.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joelove wrote:
What does this question mean, "Is being selfish normal?"

I don't try to be philosophical or anything but the question makes almost no sense to me. There are two other questions involved. What do you mean by selfish? And what do you mean by normal? Yes, it's time to punch me in the face.

Is selfish different from self-centered? And do you know anyone who is not self-centered? Think about this a little. I'm not pretending to have more or less understanding on the matter than anyone else. That's silly. What do we mean by selfishness? I think that's a fair question. It doesn't take much awareness to see that selfishness or "self-centeredness" is common to all people, because there is very little love in us. What little compassion we have comes and goes. Most of us, most of the time, are out for ourselves, and so selfishness is the dominant force in our lives. You and I may speak of being nice or polite or generous or whatever, but deep down we are mostly concerned with ourselves, with the "me" and the gratification of maintaining some silly image. This is all very basic. It takes no thought, and is a bunch of empty words.

By normal I guess you mean common. Of course being selfish is normal or common. Is the normal person sane or psychologically healthy? I doubt it. Most people are neurotic and totally interested in themselves, in their own petty little affairs and being or becoming somebody special, which is a grand trick we've all been taught to believe. To be normal is to be fretful, anxious, self-absorbed, envious, jealous, and to conform to all the rest of the illness given to us.

So yeah, I guess being selfish is normal.


Its typical to begin a post with a title. The title in this case didnt make any sense to you. It is 'normal'
(natural/orderly/ordinary/regular/routine/typical/average/commonplace etc.) to follow up the title with a 'post' putting context to the question.
I had assumed ( the majority of us being adult, educated to at least degree level, and being teachers of some description), that for the sake of discussion, people would understand the definition of 'selfish' and therefore unnecessary to define it - with regard the topic title (also considering that there is a very long topic next door in which people are discussing selfishness with regard to relationships).

Defining 'selfishness' however, is relevant to the 'post'.

If youd bothered to read the post, I asked the question;
'Do you think you have become more selfish since leaving home, and if not, why?' (home meaning 'your country of origin').

Which you haven't answered.

Im interested to know how leaving their home country has effected/affected people - if at all (mostly because Im thinking of writing a paper on the subject).
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

But, people today are becoming more and more selfish as we are being taught that not only is it okay but it is advantageous.

So, if you think you are selfish, you probably are.
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Stain



Joined: 08 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ambrose Bierce defined this word in the Devil's Dictionary.

Selfish~adj.~Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.

That was more than a hundred years ago. Things haven't changed much.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
No.

But, people today are becoming more and more selfish as we are being taught that not only is it okay but it is advantageous.

So, if you think you are selfish, you probably are.


With regard to our situation living away from home, I dont agree that Im being 'encouraged' (at least not directly) to become more selfish.

I do think I am becoming more selfish, but I think thats because its more difficult to make attachments to people/places after all this time away.
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joelove



Joined: 12 May 2011

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:


If you'd bothered to read the post, I asked the question;
'Do you think you have become more selfish since leaving home, and if not, why?' (home meaning 'your country of origin').

Which you haven't answered.

I'm interested to know how leaving their home country has effected/affected people - if at all (mostly because I'm thinking of writing a paper on the subject).


OK, that's fine. Since it's a paper after all. Then we can talk about being or becoming more selfish, which makes no sense at all. I'm sure psychologists are intrigued. They've got to make a living too. There is no being or becoming more selfish. The human being is self-absorbed and therefore selfish. End of story. No paper needed. Not that I'm trying to win an argument here. This just seems obvious to me. I could be wrong.

You're not understanding me either, my friend. I'm not trying to be a know it all. I'm curious about these things too.

I understand it makes for some progress in your own life, whatever that means, so you can join a bunch of meaningless research. It's a waste of time. How hard is it to see that you are self-centered? That you are selfish? It's right there in your life, every day. And I'd be curious to know of any person who is not selfish? What is up with this more or less selfish bit? There really is no more or less selfish, is there? There is just selfish. This is all simple, but let's write papers about it.

But you are wondering about the amount of selfishness one feels, right? And that makes sense to you.


Last edited by joelove on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Chaparrastique



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:

But, people today are becoming more and more selfish as we are being taught that not only is it okay but it is advantageous.
.


Not only that but if you actually are unselfish then you are viewed with suspicion.
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joelove



Joined: 12 May 2011

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel there is no way to write about this that doesn't sound terrible. I can't respond to it. There are two pointless threads on the go about selfishness, and that kind of bothers me. Why ask a question when you know the answer is in it? Selfishness is yourself. So stop asking these questions, please. I'm too drunk.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joelove wrote:
I feel there is no way to write about this that doesn't sound terrible. I can't respond to it. There are two pointless threads on the go about selfishness, and that kind of bothers me. Why ask a question when you know the answer is in it? Selfishness is yourself. So stop asking these questions, please. I'm too drunk.


Fair enough Laughing

To be honest, I think selfishness is only a part of it. Im more curious about how its changed people living abroad for a long time (Ive gone ahead and changed the topic title).
It just seems that selfishness is the more common trait that comes out in people - so Im picking on that aspect first.

Anyway, its no big deal. Maybe you should get some sleep before you go to work?
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drcrazy



Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My user name says it all.
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Moldy Rutabaga



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difficulty with such a question is that it's hard to establish a control. Do people who live in Korea in ESL for many years change because of the circumstances, or because they're older? How much of one and of the other?

I don't think I've particularly grown away from friends/family back home any more than I would have if I had stayed; when your college friends find careers and have families there is a change in how much time they can devote to friendships. Have your friends remained close to each other, or have they also grown apart to some comfortable distance?

Personally, I think I am both more willing to let things be than I was ten years ago after dealing with so many silly messes here, and perhaps also less trusting of people after working with several troubled or malicious ones. But again, I wouldn't say this is because of isolation, and am not sure that it wouldn't have happened anyway in Canada. Perhaps it is also some accommodation in that Koreans tend to prioritize immediate family over friends and others more, and maybe this seems 'selfish.'

Assuming you could separate the effects of aging, I think this would be something interesting to research.
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SeoulNate



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm way less volatile than I was back home. Part of that is surely being 7 years older, but part of it has also been the little frustrations that living in Korea brings. If I still exploded like I did back home I probably would have killed somewhere here by now.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that I've seen/heard people talking about a lot, is how they feel they've moved apart from people back home.
There is almost an expectation by people when they return home, that they will be welcomed back into their family and friends routines without question.

As well, people may believe they will return as a kind of 'hero' who has been travelling the world.
What often happens though, is that even though living abroad is part of the same routine for us (especially if you have a family abroad), and usually we would have that in common - there are so many general/daily differences (where we eat, the weather, where we shop, etc.), that when we talk about them, people dont recognise them as being 'normal' rather that we are 'boasting' about our experiences and are disinterested by default.

It can be very dispiriting when people are not very interested in your life, so people can feel the need to move on again as they no-longer belong. I think this can make people feel a little restless but yet in the long term, crave for stability.
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