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Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my race?
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:

Sector7G wrote:
By the way, how do you even get into conversations with Koreans on this topic, and do you set them straight on how inappropriate it is?


I ask direct questions, Koreans give direct answers. You obviously haven't done that, yet you presume to know what they think? Just ask them (err, unless you are black).

I absolutely DO NOT "set them straight". I study other cultures and observe what exists. At no time do I view a culture thru the lens of another culture, and go down the road of "how things should be". That's what people on Dave's do.
So you go around asking Koreans what they think about African Americans? If they are so "openly negative", wouldn't it be obvious? Maybe they are telling you what they think you want to hear.

I don't presume to know what Koreans are thinking on the race topic, but it never occurred to me to ask either, because I never sensed any "open negativity". Quite the opposite, as I spelled out earlier.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:
If they are so "openly negative", wouldn't it be obvious?


I thought it was...
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r2b2ct



Joined: 14 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
I absolutely DO NOT "set them straight". I study other cultures and observe what exists. At no time do I view a culture thru the lens of another culture, and go down the road of "how things should be". That's what people on Dave's do.

Have you considered viewing this racism through the cultural lens of the many non-racist Koreans?
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:

I ask direct questions, Koreans give direct answers. You obviously haven't done that, yet you presume to know what they think? Just ask them (err, unless you are black).
Why don't you ask blacks teaching in Korea what they think, before presuming to suggest that others don't come to Korea?
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wanderkind



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

I would perhaps attempt to illustrate it like this.

In North America, (to some people) there is a certain stigma attached to having a heavy Southern Accent (outside of the South). Due to the portrayal in popular media as well as certain policies that persisted there longer than elsewhere, there's a tendency to associate a strong Southern accent with being uneducated / 'backwards'. So if someone was going to hire an English professor, they might lean away from certain candidates who don't fit their idea of how an academic should sound.

From what I understand, Koreans strongly associate black people with poor countries in Africa, and therefore hagwon owners eschew employing them as teachers. Sadly this is a self-perpetuating prejudice.

(Government programs are less concerned about this since they don't have to worry about enrollment or the bottom line.)

And then there's just Koreans-are-superior racist people, as there are racists everywhere, but I think their beef is more with foreigners in general.

Maybe other people are aware of more malicious sentiments than I though. I'm just basing this on conversations with Koreans and being out and about with black friends/co-workers in Korea.

KimchiNinja wrote:
...At no time do I view a culture thru the lens of another culture, and go down the road of "how things should be". That's what people on Dave's do.


Thank God you're not one of those people Razz


Last edited by wanderkind on Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

No idea what these questions mean...

Sector7G wrote:
Why don't you ask blacks teaching in Korea what they think, before presuming to suggest that others don't come to Korea?


Because it's Korea and I'm not here to study blacks??

r2b2ct wrote:

Have you considered viewing this racism through the cultural lens of the many non-racist Koreans?


Convoluted, no idea what this means?? And I don't label things "racism", that would be viewing things thru the lens of another culture, Koreans don't necessarily have the concept of racism.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

wanderkind wrote:


KimchiNinja wrote:
...At no time do I view a culture thru the lens of another culture, and go down the road of "how things should be". That's what people on Dave's do.


Thank God you're not one of those people Razz


Yes I am thankful, but I do not thank god.

Most people on Dave's make this simple mistake again and again, and then cry about the results. The whole "how things should be", it's pathetic!!
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay guys, just got back from coffee with the woman. She owns a school and has 15yrs experience in the industry, asked her questions for fun. I enjoy these little interviews!!

Me - there is a black person on KR-forum who wants to teach in Korea and...
Her - NO!
Me - you didn't let me finish...
Her - they should stay home, they will encounter racism here.
Me - why?
Her - because the moms do not want their kids taught by them.
Me - why?
Her - because they have an image of black people talking a certain way and they do not want their kids learning that style of English.
Me - can it ever work?
Her - yes
Me - how?
Her - if the person has a high level of education the mom's fears can be lessened.

Me - there is a guy on KR-forum who says discrimination against blacks isn't a big deal here...
Her - kkk, you tell me a lie!!!
Me - no.
Her - (theorizes on that person's observational abilities, will not repeat here)

Ask people questions, get answers!
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:


Me - there is a guy on KR-forum who says discrimination against blacks isn't a big deal here...
Her - kkk, you tell me a lie!!!
Me - no.
Her - (theorizes on that person's observational abilities, will not repeat here)

Ask people questions, get answers!


Right now on another thread about 3 people (you can guess who) are angrily arguing that there is more racism against Koreans in Korea today than there ever has been against black people in the history of the US. The irony is it's these same people who always go on about 'strange' losers in Korea. Pssst: You guys are the weirdos! Even the Koreans think so!
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Right now on another thread about 3 people (you can guess who) are angrily arguing that there is more racism against Koreans in Korea today than there ever has been against black people in the history of the US.


Wut??
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
Okay guys, just got back from coffee with the woman. She owns a school and has 15yrs experience in the industry, asked her questions for fun. I enjoy these little interviews!!

Me - there is a black person on KR-forum who wants to teach in Korea and...
Her - NO!
Me - you didn't let me finish...
Her - they should stay home, they will encounter racism here.
Me - why?
Her - because the moms do not want their kids taught by them.
Me - why?
Her - because they have an image of black people talking a certain way and they do not want their kids learning that style of English.
Me - can it ever work?
Her - yes
Me - how?
Her - if the person has a high level of education the mom's fears can be lessened.

Me - there is a guy on KR-forum who says discrimination against blacks isn't a big deal here...
Her - kkk, you tell me a lie!!!
Me - no.
Her - (theorizes on that person's observational abilities, will not repeat here)

Ask people questions, get answers!
Well, I guess she proved you wrong - Koreans do have the concept of racism.

Anyway, a lady like that obviously would not hire an African American. I already conceded that it may be more difficult in getting hired. That was not the point. My point was the ones that do get hired(by more enlightened employers) will do just fine once they get here. You say that she says they will "encounter racism". I ask you again, in what way? In what form will that racism rear its ugly head? The moms are the employer's problem, and if the employer chose to hire someone I would think they would know what they are getting into. I am also pretty sure there would be no problem in a public school either. So tell me where they will be discriminated against, i.e. denied services based on their race? That leaves gossip and talking behind someone's back as the only thing you have come up with. I think they can handle that.

You say ask people questions and you get answers. I repeat, why don't you ask black people working here what their experiences have been and let them be the judge. They would be the ones to know!!
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Right now on another thread about 3 people (you can guess who) are angrily arguing that there is more racism against Koreans in Korea today than there ever has been against black people in the history of the US.


Wut??


Right now on the Marmot Hole thread there are three posters claiming that the N word has no historical weight, and that "klown" is more racist. Apparently the racism suffered by Koreans by one guy who has a blog is worse than any racism suffered by black people in the USA.

One guy said the N word has never been associated with discrimation, never mind murder and violence.

Another guy said "haters" on this site are the same and/or worse than anyone who has ever said the N word.

And the other guy called me mentally ill for believing the N word is worse than 'klown'.

These guys are so desperate to impress Koreans that will never accept them that they are actually not only comparing the struggle of Koreans IN KOREA to black people in the USA, but calling anyone who believes blacks in America have suffered more discrimination than Koreans in Korea (by foreigners) a racist. Even Koreans, like your friend there, would be embarrassed by this comparison.
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cam83



Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
cchude1 wrote:
To be honest, I knew a little bit about the racial discrimination in Korea before, but didn't think it was this strong.


I thought everyone knew about the negative view Koreans have of black people, they are quite open about it. Frankly if I were black this is the last place on Earth I would go.


Well you're not black and to assume that Korea is the worst place on Earth for a black person is just plain ignorant. I can only assume you have very few black friends if any because if you asked them, they would tell you several other countries we'd be more concerned about living in.

As for avoiding coming here... well, I agree with your earlier comments on how some Koreans view black people, but it will always be that way unless black people actually come here and change the stereotype. Even in my 5yrs living here, I've noticed that Koreans are more accepting on a social level towards black people than when I first arrived.

Sounds like you're advocating that black people don't come here and allow the negative stereotype to continue?

That's white priviledge for you.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

cam83 wrote:

As for avoiding coming here... well, I agree with your earlier comments on how some Koreans view black people, but it will always be that way unless black people actually come here and change the stereotype. Even in my 5yrs living here, I've noticed that Koreans are more accepting on a social level towards black people than when I first arrived.


I'm inclined to agree with cam here. I don't think there's any real malice at work in Korean attitudes on this matter, and with a little exposure the Black teachers I've known have seemed to do about as well as anyone else. It's actually the CPIK Chinese teachers that seem to really struggle in my experience.
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TravelHot3



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Upper Midwest for now

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

OP, I've been thinking the same thing! I've contacted numerous recruiters, and only two responded so far (too many applicants and not enough positions, and we're still looking for jobs and will let you know if something comes up). It sounds suspect because all the recruiters actively post on the Korea Jobs Board. I'm aware of the racism problems in Korea, but I thought it may not be too bad since there are several female Black American teachers who have blogs or YouTube videos about their experiences. Some were only able to take it for a year, while others are having such a good time they've found themselves staying for a second, third, or fourth year. However, @ttompatz has a good point. I've already started looking at China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. If I don't get something soon, I'll have to start looking somewhere else anyways because Korea accepts background checks no older than six months and mine "expires" in September. Good Luck! Smile
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