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Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my race?
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've worked with a couple of African Americans in my time in Korea, and they seem to suffer more racism in general.
There was the woman who was the foreign English teacher's assistant at the elementary school where I had an after-school job. She was a nice enough person but she ended up in some hot water. A student of mine came and asked me if I called Koreans "yellow monkeys". I told him that I didn't and asked where he learned about this phrase. He told me the teacher's assistant had told his class that Americans called Koreans "yellow monkeys". When I asked the woman about it she explained that she was trying to teach the students about racism, due to her experiencing racism from some students.

Another time at a university we had two black lecturers. They were nice people but one of them was let go at the end of his contract, alongside a white Canadian, and one was given a warning after his first semester. The head of our department was a Canadian who used "nigger" negatively in a conversation. I often wonder if he had any say on who was let go.

Anyway, make of these experiences what you will. I think that life is harder in Korea for people with dark skin.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

TravelHot3 wrote:
I'm aware of the racism problems in Korea, but I thought it may not be too bad since there are several female Black American teachers who have blogs or YouTube videos about their experiences. Some were only able to take it for a year, while others are having such a good time they've found themselves staying for a second, third, or fourth year.
Which pretty much describes the teaching population as a whole.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzmaster wrote:
I've worked with a couple of African Americans in my time in Korea, and they seem to suffer more racism in general.
There was the woman who was the foreign English teacher's assistant at the elementary school where I had an after-school job. She was a nice enough person but she ended up in some hot water. A student of mine came and asked me if I called Koreans "yellow monkeys". I told him that I didn't and asked where he learned about this phrase. He told me the teacher's assistant had told his class that Americans called Koreans "yellow monkeys". When I asked the woman about it she explained that she was trying to teach the students about racism, due to her experiencing racism from some students.

Another time at a university we had two black lecturers. They were nice people but one of them was let go at the end of his contract, alongside a white Canadian, and one was given a warning after his first semester. The head of our department was a Canadian who used "nigger" negatively in a conversation. I often wonder if he had any say on who was let go.

Anyway, make of these experiences what you will. I think that life is harder in Korea for people with dark skin.
Look, I can't really say that you are wrong about the conclusions you've reached - in fact, Blacks may very well experience more racism in Korea than Whites. Again, I would defer to what they have to say about their experiences.

But the two anecdotes that you included are not really very good examples of it - especially the second one. Two teachers, one black and one white, are not re-signed to a second year, a second black is re-signed, and you cite racism? We are discussing Korean racism, and you talk about a racist Canadian department head as a possible reason? By the way, how else can you regularly use the n-word in conversation other than negatively?

The first story is also inconclusive. '"Monkey" seems to be one of the Korean people's insults of choice, and they have gotten into trouble before for slurring the Japanese, Filipinos, and Chinese this way. Certainly not saying that is a good thing, but how do you know her students were using it against her? Maybe she heard them use it against others, and was trying to use it as a "teachable moment". Anyway, what kind of "hot water" did she get into?
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:
jazzmaster wrote:
I've worked with a couple of African Americans in my time in Korea, and they seem to suffer more racism in general.
There was the woman who was the foreign English teacher's assistant at the elementary school where I had an after-school job. She was a nice enough person but she ended up in some hot water. A student of mine came and asked me if I called Koreans "yellow monkeys". I told him that I didn't and asked where he learned about this phrase. He told me the teacher's assistant had told his class that Americans called Koreans "yellow monkeys". When I asked the woman about it she explained that she was trying to teach the students about racism, due to her experiencing racism from some students.

Another time at a university we had two black lecturers. They were nice people but one of them was let go at the end of his contract, alongside a white Canadian, and one was given a warning after his first semester. The head of our department was a Canadian who used "nigger" negatively in a conversation. I often wonder if he had any say on who was let go.

Anyway, make of these experiences what you will. I think that life is harder in Korea for people with dark skin.
Look, I can't really say that you are wrong about the conclusions you've reached - in fact, Blacks may very well experience more racism in Korea than Whites. Again, I would defer to what they have to say about their experiences.

But the two anecdotes that you included are not really very good examples of it - especially the second one. Two teachers, one black and one white, are not re-signed to a second year, a second black is re-signed, and you cite racism? We are discussing Korean racism, and you talk about a racist Canadian department head as a possible reason? By the way, how else can you regularly use the n-word in conversation other than negatively?

The first story is also inconclusive. '"Monkey" seems to be one of the Korean people's insults of choice, and they have gotten into trouble before for slurring the Japanese, Filipinos, and Chinese this way. Certainly not saying that is a good thing, but how do you know her students were using it against her? Maybe she heard them use it against others, and was trying to use it as a "teachable moment". Anyway, what kind of "hot water" did she get into?


I think you're right. I'm not claiming my experiences prove anything, but they have given me some things to think about regarding the circumstances black people may encounter in Korea.
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TravelHot3



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Upper Midwest for now

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

[quote="Sector7G"][quote="TravelHot3"] I'm aware of the racism problems in Korea, but I thought it may not be too bad since there are several female Black American teachers who have blogs or YouTube videos about their experiences. [b]Some were only able to take it for a year, while others are having such a good time they've found themselves staying for a second, third, or fourth year.[/b] [/quote]Which pretty much describes the teaching population as a whole.[/quote]

True. However, I have a growing concern about the level of difficulties I will have to face. I know there is racism everywhere, and I have had some crazy experiences so far in the U.S., but some places are worse than others. I also have a question on the possibility of getting a job to begin with. I don't have the time or money to keep getting the FBI check/State Dept. apostille because it's considered valid for only six months, yet it will take a year or longer before getting an offer. I'd rather put my efforts into other countries where a person with a darker skin color is not perceived as unable to teach Standard English, or having unacceptable behavior.
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Usurname



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are some academies in Vietnam who offer packages similar to those found in Korea but with a MUCH LOWER cost of living the savings are good and there is a lot to be said for having a 3bedroom house with maid compared to a 225 ft studio apartment.

Where do you find such a place?
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jcd



Joined: 13 Mar 2012

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you being selective about your location when applying? If you are saying that you want certain areas then it will take a lot of time. The recruiter won't even bother with you. They want someone they can put in their least desirable jobs.
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oatmeal



Joined: 26 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

cchude1 wrote:
I have visited the country before and I wanted to prove my dad wrong about Koreans not being racist, but unfortunately he is being proven right. Any suggestions? Thank you!


This is a very childish and ignorant deduction to make based on not being able to find a job. No offense, but african americans need to stop crying and playing the race card issue about EVERYTHING. You can't use the racism excuse anymore.

There are lots of "black" people who are hired and work as teachers in Korea. You should apologize officially for even suggesting such a silly accusation based on your thinking.

I'm a visible minority myself back in Canada, but when I can't get jobs there, I don't say, "Canada is racist because nobody wanted to hire me."

There is no law that says that Koreans must hire black people, if not, they are racists. But of course that's how the higher ups are trying to make the system that way.

I'm sorry, I completely disagree with your way of thinking. Is it harder for foreigners to find jobs in Korea? Sure. Just like it's harder for visible minorities in North America to get privileges (although that is quickly changing). But if Korea don't wanna hire you, don't be a baby and say Korea is racist as an excuse. The world is not your your oyster. Nobody has to give you anything just because you are black and deserve "special" privileges (although that is how the system is being conditioned now).
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wanderkind



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

oatmeal wrote:
cchude1 wrote:
I have visited the country before and I wanted to prove my dad wrong about Koreans not being racist, but unfortunately he is being proven right. Any suggestions? Thank you!

.....No offense, but african americans need to stop crying and playing the race card issue about EVERYTHING. You can't use the racism excuse anymore.
'EVERYTHING' is of course an exaggeration and I'm not sure how often racism is an 'excuse' as opposed to an accusation. You seem to be saying it's no longer relevant, however that is not the case. I have personally observed with my own eyes an HR manager here discard the applications of 4 highly qualified black candidates in favour of an under-qualified white candidate. Regardless if it is pragmatic decision-making based on awareness of consumer demands, the fact that public opinion (though slowly changing) holds that black people (and numerous other visual minorities) are unsuitable for teaching English, and that there are discriminatory hiring practices based on that prejudice, is fundamentally racist. It may be a more dispassionate racism than the nefarious superiority-inferiority based, violent, historical shit that the word conventionally conjures association with, but it is nonetheless a form of racism.

(By any chance, are you an Asian Canadian? This is a whole different can of worms, but I get the impression that occasionally Asian American / Asian Canadians view black North Americans as an 'established' minority, or as having already 'made it' in society, and see black people still advocating equality as entitled or whining, while Asian immigrants keep their heads down and work to earn their prosperity. But when inequality, though greatly improved from pre-1960s, still abounds, the thinking shouldn't be "Why are they making such a fuss?" but "Why aren't we?"
I'll draw an analogy, albeit with a far 'lighter' issue, to the Quebec-English Canada post-secondary tuition rates. A few years back there were massive protests in Quebec, which has the lowest tuition, against a proposed increase. While this was widely supported, some in English Canada said "Why are they protesting when their rates are already so low?". The refrain was, "Why aren't we protesting when OUR rates are so much higher?")


There are lots of "black" people who are hired and work as teachers in Korea...I guess the question would be is it proportional to the demographics in their home countries or if it is disproportionately lower. As a hyper simplified basis for comparison, are 1/10 American English teachers in Korea black?

I'm a visible minority myself back in Canada, but when I can't get jobs there, I don't say, "Canada is racist because nobody wanted to hire me."
No offense, but it's a little absurd to compare experiences in Korea (as of 2007, ~2% foreign inhabitants, with 44% of that 2% being Ethnic Koreans from China) with your own in Canada (nearly 24% visible minorities).

Sure. Just like it's harder for visible minorities in North America to get privileges (like...doctors' privileges?) ....But if Korea don't wanna hire you, don't be a baby and say Korea is racist as an excuse.... Nobody has to give you anything just because you are black and deserve "special" privileges...The OP is not asking for "special" privileges. They're not asking to be given a job because they're black. They're asking if they're NOT finding a job because of it.


I just blue myself.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]Quote:
There are some academies in Vietnam who offer packages similar to those found in Korea but with a MUCH LOWER cost of living the savings are good and there is a lot to be said for having a 3bedroom house with maid compared to a 225 ft studio apartment.

Where do you find such a place?[/quote]

E.g.

https://jobs.britishcouncil.org/ViewVacancy.aspx?enc=mEgrBL4XQK0+ld8aNkwYmJz/8eDv9LSFDSnSPLmm6dqvb6q7GiI+wHqTJODc5mnWJPVoo8PN+jHldhbi+IGElw==


Salary

20-hours contract 2,441 - 3,099 USD per month gross
24-hours contract 2,906 – 3,689 USD per month gross


3 story (never mind 3 bedroom)house in Hanoi with maid - around 500 dollars
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
Sector7G wrote:
Openly negative? How so? I've never seen, or heard, anything like that. Can you provide examples of how that manifests itself?


Where are you living that you are not seeing this??? Confused

Was in a meeting with a high up Samsung guy, out of nowhere the guy starts telling me how there was a black guy at his college, and how the guy was so ridiculously "yo man" in his ignorant speech patterns and so forth. Initial shock that any exec would do this in a meeting, then realized this is just normal behavior here, and he was certain I would go along.

My friend knew a black fellow living here who was Harvard educated. When people asked him where he went to school and he said Harvard they all had a good laugh, certainly a black person could never get into Harvard they knew.

Aprika Cigarettes marketing campaign. Korean Air marketing campaigns.

Just talk to a Korean and ask them their views. I generally hear "we Koreans believe they are not as evolved". Or "we are not racists, we just do not like them". They are quite clear about it.


There's some, but it's more of child making remarks or doing something and giggling. It's not really hateful or violent or dangerous. Most Koreans will be fine with you. Most black guys I met in Korea had very little problem teaching or living here except for the odd incident in the media or something odd being advertised.

If you're an American Black, you'd face a lot less prejudice here than back home. But, even "white guys" have had their issues at time over here. IN general, come over and don't worry. You'll be fine.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Difficulty getting any interest, is it because of my rac Reply with quote

oatmeal wrote:
cchude1 wrote:
I have visited the country before and I wanted to prove my dad wrong about Koreans not being racist, but unfortunately he is being proven right. Any suggestions? Thank you!


This is a very childish and ignorant deduction to make based on not being able to find a job. No offense, but african americans need to stop crying and playing the race card issue about EVERYTHING. You can't use the racism excuse anymore.

There are lots of "black" people who are hired and work as teachers in Korea. You should apologize officially for even suggesting such a silly accusation based on your thinking.

I'm a visible minority myself back in Canada, but when I can't get jobs there, I don't say, "Canada is racist because nobody wanted to hire me."

There is no law that says that Koreans must hire black people, if not, they are racists. But of course that's how the higher ups are trying to make the system that way.

I'm sorry, I completely disagree with your way of thinking. Is it harder for foreigners to find jobs in Korea? Sure. Just like it's harder for visible minorities in North America to get privileges (although that is quickly changing). But if Korea don't wanna hire you, don't be a baby and say Korea is racist as an excuse. The world is not your your oyster. Nobody has to give you anything just because you are black and deserve "special" privileges (although that is how the system is being conditioned now).


I'm Canadian. Canada and America are two different things. Minorities probably have more acceptance in our country. Also we have less "race" fear in the sense that something we say isn't going to be misunderstood as being racist. America has more Political Correctness in this regard that some people are so afraid of being accused of being racist that they won't talk to each other sometimes. Obviously, not everywhere and everyone. I've had lots of minority friends back hoem and we'd teqase each other all the time as friends. No big deal.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usurname wrote:
Quote:
There are some academies in Vietnam who offer packages similar to those found in Korea but with a MUCH LOWER cost of living the savings are good and there is a lot to be said for having a 3bedroom house with maid compared to a 225 ft studio apartment.

Where do you find such a place?


um.... in Vietnam?

Can't make google work for you ?

I guess using Dave's job boards is a little rough too?
http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/
http://www.eslcafe.com/search/Jobs/

.
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cbmufc



Joined: 17 Jun 2014

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I noticed when living in korea was that the few black people I knew were generally happier and better adjusted than the white foreigners. I wonder if this is because they have thicker skin from being a minority their whole lives in the West, and have learned to take things in stride and pick their battles. While white foreigners all the sudden are minorities in a country that hasn't had a significant foreign presence, and doesn't really bend over for, or cater to, the white man like some of its other Asian neighbors do.

How many people here are black? I'd be very interested to know what your experiences are living in Korea.
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Brooks



Joined: 08 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Japan would be better. I work with several black guys, some of whom were in the military.
This may seem weird but as a white man I found black men easier to deal with most of the time. They are more relaxed.

In a new part-time university job my supervisor will be a black woman from DC.
Also I have a black friend from Yokohama with a Taiwanese wife. He tried working in Korea but just prefers Japan.
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